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Wild West Samurai
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iskandar wrote:
Kakaze wrote:
I guess having it be one handed d10, there's no downside if you aren't strong enough to use it. I personally think the katana is just a longsword, but there is one mentioned in the back of Reloaded, so why not use it?


Okay, I'm a bit of a military history nut, so if this is a katana made with japanese iron, I would just make it have the same stats as a longsword. The whole thousands of folds was needed because japanese iron had so many impurities. However, if you want the katana to have those mungo bonuses, why not increase its cost either in money or in belongings points to represent it being made in the usa with american steel/iron (thus its stronger) but with japanese swordmaking methods, making it extremely expensive. You could also make it so that you need a katana to do your chi mastery powers, making it a focus or something, so it balances out the fact that you are doing chi with additional damage from pointy things.

I rebut with the following: http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37356
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iskandar
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
iskandar wrote:
Kakaze wrote:
I guess having it be one handed d10, there's no downside if you aren't strong enough to use it. I personally think the katana is just a longsword, but there is one mentioned in the back of Reloaded, so why not use it?


Okay, I'm a bit of a military history nut, so if this is a katana made with japanese iron, I would just make it have the same stats as a longsword. The whole thousands of folds was needed because japanese iron had so many impurities. However, if you want the katana to have those mungo bonuses, why not increase its cost either in money or in belongings points to represent it being made in the usa with american steel/iron (thus its stronger) but with japanese swordmaking methods, making it extremely expensive. You could also make it so that you need a katana to do your chi mastery powers, making it a focus or something, so it balances out the fact that you are doing chi with additional damage from pointy things.

I rebut with the following: http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37356


Yes, the fearsome kang. What is he going to do? Skulk up in the north and continue to fight the sioux because everyone else is capable of kicking his ass. Oh wait. Least. Fearsome. Rail Baron. Ever.
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Kakaze
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I figure I'm taking a negative in the form of always requiring my daisho to operate my chi powers, so a d10 one handed sword (which is certainly worse than the base SWD katana) for free would be a pretty good trade off. If I couldn't afford it at character creation I'd buy the wakizashi as a shortsword, take a vow to retrieve the katana, and have it be the focus of his first few sessions.

Doesn't really matter though. The concept trumps the mechanics, at least where the end result isn't unbalancing.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iskandar wrote:
Yes, the fearsome kang. What is he going to do? Skulk up in the north and continue to fight the sioux because everyone else is capable of kicking his ass. Oh wait. Least. Fearsome. Rail Baron. Ever.

Rolling Eyes
You're missing my point, intentionally or otherwise, which is that the rules for the weapon already exist in the setting. Lazy as I am, I don't change something unless I have a really compelling reason. Sword-nerd-ism is not a compelling reason to change anything.


Aside: The katana is horrifically over-hyped. It's a long slashing blade (most effective for lightly armored infantry while acting as cavalry - or showing off sweeping cuts for the court) made from crappy iron (Japan lacks native supplies of high-quality iron), using techniques that were developed by local blacksmiths about 1000 years ago. Meanwhile, European blacksmiths used similar techniques to make swords from crappy iron some 3000 years ago, and stopped when they found a cheaper and faster way to make steel that was just as good.
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iskandar
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
iskandar wrote:
Yes, the fearsome kang. What is he going to do? Skulk up in the north and continue to fight the sioux because everyone else is capable of kicking his ass. Oh wait. Least. Fearsome. Rail Baron. Ever.

Rolling Eyes
You're missing my point, intentionally or otherwise, which is that the rules for the weapon already exist in the setting. Lazy as I am, I don't change something unless I have a really compelling reason. Sword-nerd-ism is not a compelling reason to change anything.


Aside: The katana is horrifically over-hyped. It's a long slashing blade (most effective for lightly armored infantry while acting as cavalry - or showing off sweeping cuts for the court) made from crappy iron (Japan lacks native supplies of high-quality iron), using techniques that were developed by local blacksmiths about 1000 years ago. Meanwhile, European blacksmiths used similar techniques to make swords from crappy iron some 3000 years ago, and stopped when they found a cheaper and faster way to make steel that was just as good.


that actually would be a great taint for a katana relic. The bonus would be that you could use it to channel chi energy for martial arts strikes, giving you extra damage, while the taint would be you suddenly become obsessively enarmored with the sword and you go around trying to chop through steel because you think its the best sword evar!

On that note, that actually reminds me of a character one of my posse played way back when in a hell on earth game. He played a white man who suddenly started channeling a nature spirit, namely the spirit of american jingoism (don't ask how, it involves a flag pole, a radiated steak and several dozen chuck norris films) Since hoe tends to assume most real life events go on with some flavor added in, we let him use pop culture references as a way to channel the spirit. So, when we were in the maze, we suddenly ran into some pirates who were allied to a japanese gang in the north of california. He tdecided to leap off of a low cliff, onto the boat, and chose as his chant to call upon the spirit's favor: "F*@#$%G WEABOOS!"
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wyrdhamster
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My older brother come with the same "western samurai" concept and we are now in process of creating him character. What I lack in DLR ( and SW gernally ) are some more specific sword fighting rules - you know, some manuvers, some Edges, something more than "your katana is making STR+d10 damage".

Here is the graphic I found some time ago on Internet, very on topic. Wink

http://www.pinspire.pl/pin/show/6401859
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wyrdhamster wrote:
What I lack in DLR ( and SW gernally ) are some more specific sword fighting rules -

What, specifically, are you looking for?

Thanks to Wild Attack, Defend, Total Defense, Rapid Attack, Called Shots, Tricks, Tests of Will, Push, Gang-Up, and the various Fighting-related Edges (Sweep, Frenzy, etc.), there is a maneuver or edge for the majority of sword fighting. So, what specifically do you think is missing?
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Edgeworth
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
wyrdhamster wrote:
What I lack in DLR ( and SW gernally ) are some more specific sword fighting rules -

What, specifically, are you looking for?

Thanks to Wild Attack, Defend, Total Defense, Rapid Attack, Called Shots, Tricks, Tests of Will, Push, Gang-Up, and the various Fighting-related Edges (Sweep, Frenzy, etc.), there is a maneuver or edge for the majority of sword fighting. So, what specifically do you think is missing?


What he said. I get where you're coming from (or at least I think I do), but usually any more detailed close-combat rules than what SW has are actually the more limiting rules. If a game has very specific rules for different fighting styles and weapons, the player sticks to his guns for maximum damage.

In SW all those little things, like preferred fighting stance, are in the roleplaying. It makes sense that your character fights the way he has always fought, but if the situation demands something different, SW doesn't penalize the player for thinking outside of the box. Of course, If the swordslinger always fights with his "stance of jumping around", even on top of a moving train, that's worth of a Chip. He'll need it when he falls down.

What i'm trying to say here, try to (and encourage your players to) describe the Fighting rolls. If a character is a melee-build, tell them to think how they usually fight when making the character. And give out Chips for good roleplaying, both in and out of combat.
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wyrdhamster
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Weirdly, I come to the things needed by just seeing Iron Dynasty - you there have Edges of "techniques" that are exaclty what I needed.

True, general SW rules are great for just giving you taunts, Test of Wills, slashings, etc. But when you want to use some exotic swordfighting ( like katana ) you want to have special moves things you would want to name "Steel river of thousend cuts". Founded them in Iron Dynasty. Cool
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, katanaphilia.
Kenjutsu is no better nor worse that any other formalized swordsman training, it is simply native to Japan. But, I don't expect that fact to matter to you. Mr. Green

I'm glad Iron Dynasty can give you what you crave.
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wyrdhamster
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
Ah, katanaphilia.
Kenjutsu is no better nor worse that any other formalized swordsman training, it is simply native to Japan. But, I don't expect that fact to matter to you. Mr. Green


To be true, it's solve my now problem, bu don't solve general one. There is whole mini bonus book about horses and horses riding, but there isn't any about sword fighting techniques in SWD. Something about katana moves, zweihander manouvers, things like that.

Because when you are real comited player to hand-to-hand comabt, only "schools" Edges are enough. Wink
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Jounichi
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
The katana is horrifically over-hyped. It's a long slashing blade (most effective for lightly armored infantry while acting as cavalry - or showing off sweeping cuts for the court) made from crappy iron (Japan lacks native supplies of high-quality iron), using techniques that were developed by local blacksmiths about 1000 years ago. Meanwhile, European blacksmiths used similar techniques to make swords from crappy iron some 3000 years ago, and stopped when they found a cheaper and faster way to make steel that was just as good.

Do you have some sort of hate for the Katana? I won't argue they're over-hyped (largely due to the film industry), but their only real drawback over European swords was they chipped more easily. All things equal, the curved blade of a Katana gave it superior cutting power; and considering the quality of steel they were able to produce with such poor quality iron sand, their craftsmanship deserves respect.

And no, European blacksmiths were not making steel swords by folding steel in 1000 BC. The earliest known swordsmithing in Europe was by the Celts in 800 BC, and it was bronze and a little iron. Korea was smelting iron in 1000 BC, perfected by the Chinese, and disseminated back to Korea and to Japan.

But this is all horribly off-topic compared to the rest of the thread. Personally, I wouldn't allow a Japanese weapon to be used by the Chinese in a DL:R game. I suppose it's a relatively small oversight on the part of the developers, but I prefer my games to have a little more accuracy. And yes, I recognize the irony of that statement when we're dealing with the Weird West.
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Kakaze
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about by a world-traveling, Japanese Texas Ranger with Chi powers and a cybernetic eye who is originally from the Phillipines? The man I mean, not the eye.
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VonDan
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kakaze wrote:
How about by a world-traveling, Japanese Texas Ranger with Chi powers and a cybernetic eye who is originally from the Phillipines? The man I mean, not the eye.


this is the weird west an cybernetici eye would be insane...


it has to be a steam punk eye patch with cog wheels stitched to it that he can still magically see with
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jounichi wrote:
Personally, I wouldn't allow a Japanese weapon to be used by the Chinese in a DL:R game. I suppose it's a relatively small oversight on the part of the developers, but I prefer my games to have a little more accuracy.

It's not used by Chinese people. It's used by Japanese people, most of them formerly of the Samurai caste. They know how to fight, they have a weapon, and they are outsiders in their current environment - which is why so many ended up working for Kang (who needs fighters, pays on time, and treats them with respect).
People from all over Asia came to the West. Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Thai, and a dozen other nations had thousands of people travel to California. That was true in real history and is true in Deadlands.
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Fists-of-Dorn
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kakaze wrote:
I'm considering swapping Smite with Boost/Lower Trait though. Smite seems more appropriate, but 2d10 damage is rather a lot already and I'd love to up my Fighting to d12+1.



Boost/Lower Trait could also serve double-duty by allowing your samurai to slash his foe non-lethally in order to hinder his enemy; reducing his combat effectiveness by reducing his Vigor, STR, AGL, or by causing him to panic (reducing his SMTs and SPT so that he is easier to trick and intimidate).




Kakaze wrote:
Yeah its part of the Deflection power, but I didn't want be too Jedi.


Instead of looking at Deflection as a version of Classic's Seize the Pearl of Death, instead apply the trappings of Merciful Sparrow. The character can use the power to defend himself and others from ranged attacks (not big ones like cannonballs and boulders) by intercepting the incoming attack with another projectile.
Your friendly ranged about to be bushwhacked by some varmint you cannot reach? Hurl your canteen into the path, use your katana to hack the top off of a fence post and then flick it into the path using the blade, and so on.
It might take some reworking so that you could deflect for others, maybe +1 pp to the base cost and maintenance cost per additional target you can protect per round.
Don't worry about designating who is protected by your effect until someone is attacked. At that point you determine if you are protecting them. If you do, then you are assumed to protect them for the remainder of the effect's duration- keeps it fast and all that jazz.

I wouldn't advise making the cost for additional targets more than a single power point, because it's not very likely you'll have a lot to work with at any one time and more importantly is the fact that in order to defend someone else you have to be aware of the attack on them and have a sufficient line of effect to intercept the attack.




-Fists.
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Kakaze
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's doing quite well at the moment with Armor, Smite, and Fly actually. We were pretty far along in The Flood when my old character, a voodoo priest type, got killed. I wanted someone a little more combat oriented, and this guy has turned out pretty well.

A katana with right hand of the devil is a fearsome thing to behold. I managed to kill a member of the devils herd in one round with that bad boy. Of course, one of the others knocked me down for the count directly afterwords, but hey, being dead already has its perks.
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velikch
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iskandar wrote:
Kakaze wrote:
I guess having it be one handed d10, there's no downside if you aren't strong enough to use it. I personally think the katana is just a longsword, but there is one mentioned in the back of Reloaded, so why not use it?


Okay, I'm a bit of a military history nut, so if this is a katana made with japanese iron, I would just make it have the same stats as a longsword. The whole thousands of folds was needed because japanese iron had so many impurities. However, if you want the katana to have those mungo bonuses, why not increase its cost either in money or in belongings points to represent it being made in the usa with american steel/iron (thus its stronger) but with japanese swordmaking methods, making it extremely expensive. You could also make it so that you need a katana to do your chi mastery powers, making it a focus or something, so it balances out the fact that you are doing chi with additional damage from pointy things.


Forget "American Steel", let's make it a Ghost Steel blade instead. Wink
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Takeda
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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kakaze wrote:
"Your deal, Mr. Whateley."

Cont.


Very, very cool! Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool Cool
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