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[MARS] Sword and Blaster and Brute Warrior

 
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Oswald Rabbit
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: [MARS] Sword and Blaster and Brute Warrior Reply with quote

I have a question regarding two of the Edges for this setting. On page 64 under the Sword and Blaster Edge, it reads: "The character can fight with a melee weapon in one hand, and a ranged weapon in the other. He can make an extra Shooting attack, at any target, per round--at a -2 to both the Fighting and Shooting attack. In addition, opponents subtract 1 from any “gang up” bonuses they would normally receive against the character."

What advantage exactly does this Edge confer? Anyone can make a melee attack with a sword in one hand and a blaster in the other at a -2 to both attacks. In fact, SWD specifically states on page 66 that a character can make a Fighting and a Shooting attack if he had a gun in one hand and a knife in the other. The Edge does subtract one from "gang up" bonuses, but it has the Florentine Edge as a prerequisite which does that anyway. I don't see what this Edge allows you to do that you couldn't do already, or any reason why anyone should take it.

On page 66, it says under the Brute Warrior Edge: "If a Brute Warrior character chooses the Berserk edge, they can balance it with a Minor hindrance, rather than a major." That sounds nice, except that Brute Warrior is a Seasoned Edge, so the character will have already taken his Hindrances to balance his Berserk Edge (if he has one) during character creation. Would taking this Edge retroactively allow a character to change a Major Hindrance into a Minor one? That doesn't make any sense to me. It would make more sense if someone with the Berserk Edge could take Brute Warrior and also raise the die type of a skill that is lower than its linked attribute.
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have the Mars book, but usually if you use two weapons, you are -2 with one, and-4 with the other (unless you have ambidextrous)
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Oswald Rabbit
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
I don't have the Mars book, but usually if you use two weapons, you are -2 with one, and-4 with the other (unless you have ambidextrous)


In that case, why not just take Ambidextrous, which is more generally useful?
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shrug. dunno

because you also get the lowered gangup?

and even then it's only good if you can buy off the -2
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Enno
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe because it's a SWEX setting, and Ambidextrous is a Background edge taken at character generation only?

Florentine is basically a two melee weapon edge, while Sword and Blaster gives you advantages for a mixed blaster/blade fighting style.

S&B is the fighting style favored by the elite warriors of Callor - and not all of are ambidextrous i persume, but two-fisted at best.
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Other Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do a serch here. I asked almost the same question a year or so ago. There is a slight advantage to this, but you can take other edges that are much better and kind of do the same thing.
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Enno
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I read your old posting...

What are the usual modifiers for wielding a blaster in your main, and a blade in your off-hand? -2 for the blaster, and -4 for the blade IIRC. S&B reduces this to -2 for both, like you learned Ambidextrous, which is a background edge.

I concur, that the design is "suboptimal" as it should be a simple "trapping" for the florentine edge IMO.
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Other Mike
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would tend to take Two Fisted over Sword and Blaster. That gives me -0 for one weapon and -2 for the one in my off hand ... assuming I didn't take Ambidextrous as well. The two weapons can be any combination of melee or ranged ... though I would lose the -1 vs. gang up bonus.
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I'd change it; if you shoot in melee you roll vs 4, not parry.

the idea being you can sort of block their sword with yours, giving yourself a clean shot at them.
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Other Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to note from a previous thread on this subject, when I asked the author (Gareth-Michael Skarka) for some clarification on this Edge, I was told there was a typo in the book, and that it should be -1 for each attack, not -2. I'm not sure that has ever been documented anywhere else. Still, I'm not sure why Florentine is a requirement, especially since they don't seem to stack.
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Other Mike
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: [MARS] Sword and Blaster and Brute Warrior Reply with quote

Oswald Rabbit wrote:
On page 66, it says under the Brute Warrior Edge: "If a Brute Warrior character chooses the Berserk edge, they can balance it with a Minor hindrance, rather than a major." That sounds nice, except that Brute Warrior is a Seasoned Edge, so the character will have already taken his Hindrances to balance his Berserk Edge (if he has one) during character creation. Would taking this Edge retroactively allow a character to change a Major Hindrance into a Minor one? That doesn't make any sense to me. It would make more sense if someone with the Berserk Edge could take Brute Warrior and also raise the die type of a skill that is lower than its linked attribute.


Just realized that no one addressed this portion of the question. Honestly, after reading it several times in the book, it still does not make a lot of sense. I would ignore it. Still, that does not actually answer the question, so ...

I don't believe this has anything to do with changing a Major Hindrance into a Minor one.

One of the options in Character Creation is starting your character at Seasoned. So what I think this means is that with the Brute Warrior edge, Berserk only costs 1 of your character building points, rather than the normal 2.

A different way to look at this ... which I really don't care for, and I don't believe it's what Gareth meant ... might be as follows:

Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition
You create your Novice character with the Berserk background edge. When you reach Seasoned, you take Brute Warrior. Now you have one build point gained from Berserk. All you could do with it though, is raise a Skill one die type, so long as it does not exceed the linked Attribute.

Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition
With GM permission, you can add Background Edges after character creation. Once you have Brute Warrior, you can later take Berserk for half cost ... again meaning you could also advance one Skill, so long as it does not go past the linked Attribute.

It would be nice to get an answer from Gareth on what he intended here. I know he has read these forums in the past.
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mongo
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We've started a Mars campaign, and I've rewritten the Edges.


Sword and Blaster (Mars, pp. 64-65)

Requirements: Seasoned, Agility d8+, Fighting d6+, Shooting d6+, Two-Fisted

When you have both a melee weapon and a pistol in your hands, you act as if you had the Ambidextrous Edge. In addition, you subtract -1 from your opponents’ gang up bonus.

Sword and Blaster, Improved

Requirements: Veteran, Sword and Blaster

As long as you have a melee weapon in one hand, you use the standard Target Number of 4 instead of the target’s Parry when making a Shooting roll against an adjacent target. In addition, you subtract -2 from your opponents’ gang up bonus.
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Kodyax
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like your reworking, mongo
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