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Showdown Troop Builder Cheat Sheet
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SlasherEpoch
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:07 pm    Post subject: Showdown Troop Builder Cheat Sheet Reply with quote

Hello all,

I extrapolated all the math from Mr. Goff's Troop Builder PDF and made a cheat sheet for any and all takers, available here:

http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0B5avNNVOUmVEOGY1MjRhNTQtYmNiZS00M2E2LWJmNWYtZGQxNjAzN2QwMWRl&hl=en

If anyone spots errors or has suggestions for better layout, please leave a comment or shoot me a PM.

Cheers,
The Slasher
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John Goff
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The spreadsheet was Shane's baby--I'm just the monkey changing the diapers. Wink

That's an impressive bit of work there, sir! Good job!
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MightyCthulhu
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fantastic!
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Sordorel
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In rumble in the jungle donga has gargantuan, which gives him HA, but nobody has heavy weapons. So how can one score his kill points?
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John Goff
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sordorel wrote:
In rumble in the jungle donga has gargantuan, which gives him HA, but nobody has heavy weapons. So how can one score his kill points?


Well, I'd suggest two ways to handle that: 1) You can't Wink ; or, B) Ignore the Heavy Armor portion of Gargantuan and allow him to be injured by normal weapons. If you choose the second option, reduce his cost by 8 (total 71) to account for his increased vulnerability.

John
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Kealios
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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2010 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ive been looking this over, and plan on streamlining it for my own use. Im brand new to the game, and have some ideas of how to make it flow a little better for me to follow.

However, that being said, Ive got some questions (and overall, Im happy this is up - I like it so much better than the Excel sheet!).

First off, I'll admit my ignorance: I dont see a place to actually "build" a troop in the Excel sheet. Where do I input stats and have it spit the cost out?

Weapons: Ive seen it mentioned that carrying multiple weapons gives you a discount. I cannot verify this, however, and this sheet doesnt implicate this. Is this true?

Armor and Weapons: Can these be given "Edges" or bonuses to represent magical items? If so, can the extras be added just by adding the correct points value of the Edge?

Armor: You have shown that armor costs 5 points per Armor point, but the official examples in the Troop Builder seem to support 1 point per Armor, with 3 per Parry. I assume the 1-point-per-Armor is right?

Size: You have listed that Size is 10 points per, but on the "Special Abilities" tab of the Troop Builder, it has "Additional Size Modifiers" which conflict with yours. I dont have Savage Worlds, as I picked this up to play miniatures with, but this is all a bit confusing.

All in all, thanks for getting this template up, and thanks for the answers in advance!
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SlasherEpoch
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kealios wrote:
Ive been looking this over, and plan on streamlining it for my own use. Im brand new to the game, and have some ideas of how to make it flow a little better for me to follow.

However, that being said, Ive got some questions (and overall, Im happy this is up - I like it so much better than the Excel sheet!).


Thanks! I'm glad you like it.

Quote:
First off, I'll admit my ignorance: I dont see a place to actually "build" a troop in the Excel sheet. Where do I input stats and have it spit the cost out?


Well...I didn't build it like that, unfortunately, and I probably won't be doing that any time soon. I add up all the costs by hand. That also helps me because I can throw on penalties and bonuses as needed.

Quote:
Weapons: Ive seen it mentioned that carrying multiple weapons gives you a discount. I cannot verify this, however, and this sheet doesnt implicate this. Is this true?


Sort of? It's mentioned in the book that you should apply bonuses/penalties as needed. The example it gives is a creature with large Strength that primarily uses a ranged weapon - its melee attack should be discounted. This isn't, like, hardwired into the spreadsheet. Like most of Savage Worlds, it expects the player or GM to assign plusses and minuses where they need to be.

Quote:
Armor and Weapons: Can these be given "Edges" or bonuses to represent magical items? If so, can the extras be added just by adding the correct points value of the Edge?


Sure!

Quote:
Armor: You have shown that armor costs 5 points per Armor point, but the official examples in the Troop Builder seem to support 1 point per Armor, with 3 per Parry. I assume the 1-point-per-Armor is right?


Here's the deal: Armor is worth 5 points per +1, but it is then divided by 5 with the rest of a model's cost. So. That is why that value was there. So in the end, Armor is worth 1 point, but while you're calculating the unadulterated cost of a unit, then it's worth 5.

Quote:
Size: You have listed that Size is 10 points per, but on the "Special Abilities" tab of the Troop Builder, it has "Additional Size Modifiers" which conflict with yours. I dont have Savage Worlds, as I picked this up to play miniatures with, but this is all a bit confusing.

All in all, thanks for getting this template up, and thanks for the answers in advance!


Size modifiers are a bit different than Size. Here:
Each point of Size is worth 10 points and adds 1 to a model's Toughness.
Once a unit is +4 Size, they are Large and man-sized models receive a +2 bonus to hit them.
Once a unit is +8 Size, man-sized models are at a +4 to hit them.
Smaller units can be Tiny or Small (-2 and -4 to hit them).

If you haven't got Savage Worlds, I highly recommend it. There are additional rules in it that you may find helpful to flesh out your minis games, and it includes MANY rules clarifications, more than I could possible answer. It's also only $10!

Anyway, I hope this has been helpful.
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John Goff
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slasher's answers are dead on. I've elaborated a little where you specifically asked questions about the spreadsheet set up and calculations imbedded therein.


Quote:
First off, I'll admit my ignorance: I dont see a place to actually "build" a troop in the Excel sheet. Where do I input stats and have it spit the cost out?


Just copy the appropriate cells/rows to a blank worksheet and fill in your own value.

Quote:
Weapons: Ive seen it mentioned that carrying multiple weapons gives you a discount. I cannot verify this, however, and this sheet doesnt implicate this. Is this true?


The spreadsheet formula does take this into account. Compare the calculations for the 2nd and later weapons to that of the first and you should see it.
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Kealios
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlasherEpoch wrote:
Kealios wrote:
Armor: You have shown that armor costs 5 points per Armor point, but the official examples in the Troop Builder seem to support 1 point per Armor, with 3 per Parry. I assume the 1-point-per-Armor is right?


Here's the deal: Armor is worth 5 points per +1, but it is then divided by 5 with the rest of a model's cost. So. That is why that value was there. So in the end, Armor is worth 1 point, but while you're calculating the unadulterated cost of a unit, then it's worth 5.


The only problem I have with this is that the Troop Builder Excel sheet seems to list these armor costs with the "divided by 5" already factored in. This would work if you were adding them to already built characters.

I'll put this in as +5 per Armor and +3 per Parry and let the final calculation sort this out. I cannot, however, just paste the Armor sheet from the Builder and say "here, pick these" because then they would get divided once again.

Quote:
Quote:
Size: You have listed that Size is 10 points per, but on the "Special Abilities" tab of the Troop Builder, it has "Additional Size Modifiers" which conflict with yours. I dont have Savage Worlds, as I picked this up to play miniatures with, but this is all a bit confusing.

All in all, thanks for getting this template up, and thanks for the answers in advance!


Size modifiers are a bit different than Size. Here:
Each point of Size is worth 10 points and adds 1 to a model's Toughness.
Once a unit is +4 Size, they are Large and man-sized models receive a +2 bonus to hit them.
Once a unit is +8 Size, man-sized models are at a +4 to hit them.
Smaller units can be Tiny or Small (-2 and -4 to hit them).


I got Savage Worlds and see a little of this now. Thanks for the clarification. I am on vacation this weekend and will hopefully get some time in on my revised spreadsheet.
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drcheckmate
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2010 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Thanks! This is FAR more useful to me than the spreadsheet.

The spreadsheet would be handier if it was a tool rather than a reference. handy if I am using just the troop types in it, but really, frankly sort of useless if I am not. Of course, my d4-2 in Knowledge (Spreadsheets, Excel)... It is not helping me here Embarassed

What I can't figure out is why this "cheat sheet" isn't part of the rule book. I am baffled. I feel like the "build your own troops with the minis you have on hand for what ever scenarios you can imagine" factor is the whole reason to play Showdown in the first place! The relatively arcane methods required to learn how to build your own troops seems like an impediment to this.

Am I missing something obvious? I do that all the time.
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, after a long hiatus, I'm finally working on my own Showdown spreadsheet and there's something that doesn't seem to work for me.

Take the Crewman:
Ag: d6 Cost:2
Sm: d6 Cost:2
Sp: d6 Cost:4
St: d6 Cost:4
Vi: d6 Cost:6
Pace: 6 Cost:0
1st attack: d6 Cost:6
2nd attack (Special: Drive): d6 Cost 3

Now when I add those up (2+2+4+4+6+0+6+3), I get 27

23 is not from the 25% discount as that would make it 20.

What I think is happening is that every time there is a calculation that is (X/2)-1)*3), when you have nothing in there for X (i.e. 0), you get -3.

I notice that a character that is d4 in all attributes with a pace of 6 costs -7!

What a great way to build up an army with nameless faceless masses which actually give you points!

Just wondering if that was intended or not.
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SlasherEpoch
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's why I add up everything manually.
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So do you use 23 or 27 for your crewmen?
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATED to version 1.5

Take a look!

http://www.peginc.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=291535#291535

BTW, the macros are only necessary for clearing the sheet, so if you want to disable macros, if won't affect any calculations.

Also, it still doesn't have vehicles yet (mainly because I don't use them),
but I hope to get to it soon.
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Last edited by Lord Inar on Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:58 am; edited 2 times in total
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I found one thing already. I forgot to divide secondary weapons by 3.

UPDATE: fixed in 1.5

Anything else?
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Last edited by Lord Inar on Thu Sep 02, 2010 1:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Froggy the Great
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ohmigoodnessthankyouforthis!
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Thank you Slasherepoch, it was your distillation that made me get off my butt and redo my sheet.
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Lord Lance
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good sheet. Seems to correctly work even with the free OpenOffice.
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Froggy the Great
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forget, are vehicle construction rules included in the official troop-builder?
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Lord Inar
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the official one, yes, but not mine.

I keep planning on getting to it one day!
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