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[GMG] Interface Zero 2.0: Kickstarter Thread
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DavidJ
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's talk about stretch goals for a minute.

I'm going to reveal in a "slightly" different way than some other companies have with this kickstarter.

I'm going to treat it like a game. Once we reach our base funding level, the run begins, you, the backers, will be the "shadow team" and I'll be your "Gm."

Your task, of course, is to complete the "run" (or mission) by unlocking all of the reward levels (stretch goals) we have planned. Each time you unlock a reward level, the next phase of the run begins and your task will be to complete it by unlocking the next one, and so on and so forth, until they are all unlocked, and the mission is completed!

Seems pretty straightforward, as it should be, BUT, you never know if the information is accurate, omae. That's just life in the urban sprawl.

You might be unlocking secret rewards without even knowing it!
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Kodyax
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like this is going to be well worth supporting.
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DavidJ
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So let's see....

On Halloween, 2089, in a move reminiscent of the post-World War Two Soviet Union, a broke, enraged Russia simultaneously launches surgical strikes against missile defense systems in Poland and invades Belarus, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. Germany responds by sending troops to Warsaw under the pretense of bolstering the Poland's military forces against a likely invasion by Russia. What looks like the beginnings of a major European war gets stalled, however, when, on November 8th, land and air elements of the Chinese Mandarinate's military machine cross the Ural mountains, hitting the cities of Vorkuta, Pechora, Perm and Ufa simultaneously.
--------------------
If the Chinese Mandarinate captures Perm, that puts them within striking distance of Moscow.

Fun times.
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Jux
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ohh noo ... not Estonia! But seriously, what would Russia motivate to do this? The power based on the amount of land a nation has is from feudal ages. Also by that time, what is nationality, what is a country, what is patriotism? I would think the world will be so much international by then there are no ethnic cultures any more or at least not in urban areas. Even today the elite in Russia has big investments in western world, their children study there ... some serious change in politics has have to be happened before.
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DavidJ
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jux wrote:
Ohh noo ... not Estonia! But seriously, what would Russia motivate to do this? The power based on the amount of land a nation has is from feudal ages. Also by that time, what is nationality, what is a country, what is patriotism? I would think the world will be so much international by then there are no ethnic cultures any more or at least not in urban areas. Even today the elite in Russia has big investments in western world, their children study there ... some serious change in politics has have to be happened before.


I think you just answered your own question:

Investments in the western world.
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DavidJ
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll elaborate on my last post.

I'd argue that national identity and patriotism are always going to be important. We're talking about nations that have existed since the time of the ceasars. They won't simply forget who they are, but that's beside the point. It's not really about culture; It's about economics. It's always about economics.

In a world that is so inter-connected financially, if you are a country that is invested heavily in a financial system that goes completely bankrupt, you go bankrupt too. Now, let's say you find out (or suspect) that the collapse of the system was engineered somehow, that it was orchestrated. In other words, let's say you find out you were robbed.

Now overnight your country is flat broke. Your citizens are losing their homes, their jobs, their life savings, Riots happen. Crime skyrockets. People start talking about revolution, political reforms, etc.

You're going to want to pin this on a "bad guy" really fast, and that might just mean war with that bad guy.

And don't forget, this isn't just happening to your country. We're all connected in a future "Global" community right? So everyone who bought into that system was also affected by the collapse of that system.

War is going to be inevitable.

So now the question becomes, how do you wage war against a country that is on the other side of two or three other countries?

Sure, you can bomb them. You can strike key targets, but you'll always need a ground presence if you want to win the war. That means tanks, gollemmechs, infantry and all the support units involved. Some of these things can be airlifted, sure, but not all of them, and certainly not in a time frame that ensures a successful campaign.

You're going to need to cross some borders. If those countries won't let you do it peacefully, then you will likely need to do it without their permission. You're going to have to invade them.

It's not about feudalism, it's simply about logistics.
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thurak wrote:
It's always about economics.
...
You can strike key targets, but you'll always need a ground presence if you want to win the war.
...
It's not about feudalism, it's simply about logistics.

It's always refreshing to see a designer talk about these things like he has done some freaking research.

Great analysis.

A Sinno-Russian conflict is, well, terrifying. Two big, angry countries with nuclear weapons and a deep-seated cultural inferiority complex means that two nuclear powers, with something to prove, start fighting.
That means the rest of us catch the fallout from a really big mess. Thank goodness my home got blasted during the second American civil war - it's not my problem anymore. Wink
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DavidJ
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:
thurak wrote:
It's always about economics.
...
You can strike key targets, but you'll always need a ground presence if you want to win the war.
...
It's not about feudalism, it's simply about logistics.

It's always refreshing to see a designer talk about these things like he has done some freaking research.

Great analysis.

A Sinno-Russian conflict is, well, terrifying. Two big, angry countries with nuclear weapons and a deep-seated cultural inferiority complex means that two nuclear powers, with something to prove, start fighting.
That means the rest of us catch the fallout from a really big mess. Thank goodness my home got blasted during the second American civil war - it's not my problem anymore. Wink


Smile
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greyseerco
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thurak wrote:
Let's talk about stretch goals for a minute.

I'm going to reveal in a "slightly" different way than some other companies have with this kickstarter.

I'm going to treat it like a game. Once we reach our base funding level, the run begins, you, the backers, will be the "shadow team" and I'll be your "Gm."

Your task, of course, is to complete the "run" (or mission) by unlocking all of the reward levels (stretch goals) we have planned. Each time you unlock a reward level, the next phase of the run begins and your task will be to complete it by unlocking the next one, and so on and so forth, until they are all unlocked, and the mission is completed!

Seems pretty straightforward, as it should be, BUT, you never know if the information is accurate, omae. That's just life in the urban sprawl.

You might be unlocking secret rewards without even knowing it!


I will point only that I would have a few already revealed stretch goals, one of the challenges in getting people interested in the Hell on Earth Miniatures were all the stretch goals were "hidden" at the beginning, yes there were early adopters, but when I cross posted to other forums most said they would wait to see at least the art before jumping on board.

Also really do your homework for international shipping for "everything" the Euro/Canadian backers really will hesitate to back if shipping makes it not worth their time. A solution to this is to make sure to offer an all electronic pdf level.

You can add more levels later on as the earlier ones get knocked down, but making it too obscure or obfuscated will probably detract from people bidding. Confusing and misleading information - even in the sense of a game - is not a good method for gaining investors. Fan's yes, backers, not so much. And with all the "burns" that have been happening on Kickstarter, you might find some unintended backlash.

Still, you might have luck where my cautious nature is not necessary, but I just wanted to chime in as a regular KS supporter who wants this to succeed.
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DavidJ
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greyseerco wrote:
thurak wrote:
Let's talk about stretch goals for a minute.

I'm going to reveal in a "slightly" different way than some other companies have with this kickstarter.

I'm going to treat it like a game. Once we reach our base funding level, the run begins, you, the backers, will be the "shadow team" and I'll be your "Gm."

Your task, of course, is to complete the "run" (or mission) by unlocking all of the reward levels (stretch goals) we have planned. Each time you unlock a reward level, the next phase of the run begins and your task will be to complete it by unlocking the next one, and so on and so forth, until they are all unlocked, and the mission is completed!

Seems pretty straightforward, as it should be, BUT, you never know if the information is accurate, omae. That's just life in the urban sprawl.

You might be unlocking secret rewards without even knowing it!


I will point only that I would have a few already revealed stretch goals, one of the challenges in getting people interested in the Hell on Earth Miniatures were all the stretch goals were "hidden" at the beginning, yes there were early adopters, but when I cross posted to other forums most said they would wait to see at least the art before jumping on board.

Also really do your homework for international shipping for "everything" the Euro/Canadian backers really will hesitate to back if shipping makes it not worth their time. A solution to this is to make sure to offer an all electronic pdf level.

You can add more levels later on as the earlier ones get knocked down, but making it too obscure or obfuscated will probably detract from people bidding. Confusing and misleading information - even in the sense of a game - is not a good method for gaining investors. Fan's yes, backers, not so much. And with all the "burns" that have been happening on Kickstarter, you might find some unintended backlash.

Still, you might have luck where my cautious nature is not necessary, but I just wanted to chime in as a regular KS supporter who wants this to succeed.


Thanks so much for your advice. I really appreciate it!
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Jux
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thurak wrote:
I'll elaborate on my last post.
...


Well I don't get it, but I haven't read the IZ1 setting and I don't know what the geopolitical situation is all about. For me it seems strange to have the same cold-war problems on that time when everything else is so much changed. I think it would be more logical that the power and wealth would shift from west to east. Europe will be in poverty and nothing to gain by invading there.

In this setting, I would like to know:
- why would Russia launch full scale war on west?
- about economics? War costs more. What would they gain?
- today we fight about national resources, what would we fight for in future?
- once they invade, lets say London, that is completely destroyed, what would Russia do with it?

World is not only interconnected financially. It is also interconnected by blood. Relatives, children, colleagues live in different countries. There are tens of millions of Russians living outside Russia. In 2009 more than 3 milj. in USA. Big cities are totally international - New York, London, etc. And that takes place in accelerating pace. Now fast forward 60 years - you don't get WW2 (west vs east).

When going wild, I would suggest new union in geopolitics Eurasia (EU + Russia - after collapse of EU). Former EU and USA are political rivals. China and USA are in bigger conflict. China is the new center of the world.

But never mind me. Either way it would be interesting to read about this setting.

Also what is actually IZ2 compared to IZ1? Same setting with new polished rules?
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DavidJ
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jux wrote:
thurak wrote:
I'll elaborate on my last post.
...


Well I don't get it, but I haven't read the IZ1 setting and I don't know what the geopolitical situation is all about. For me it seems strange to have the same cold-war problems on that time when everything else is so much changed. I think it would be more logical that the power and wealth would shift from west to east. Europe will be in poverty and nothing to gain by invading there.


This is assuming that a ton of things have changed, and that they have changed in the way you think they have changed.

Yeah I think you'd need to get familiar with this setting, which is why I'll be giving people who back at 20 bucks or higher all my Savage Worlds Interface Zero E-books. There is very useful information in the 1st edition that I won't be reprinting in the second edition.

You seem to be pushing your perceptions of the setting ( and perhaps the genre) on what the setting actually is, which is probably why you don't understand it.

That's not meant to be an insult, it's just an observation.


Jux wrote:

In this setting, I would like to know:
- why would Russia launch full scale war on west?
- about economics? War costs more. What would they gain?
- today we fight about national resources, what would we fight for in future?
- once they invade, lets say London, that is completely destroyed, what would Russia do with it?


First off, I never said it was a full-scale war on the west. I said they invaded a few countries. I also said that campaign got stalled because of a larger conflict brewing with China.

I believe I've hinted at the fact that there is going to be an economic collapse, and like it or not, that can cause wars to happen. Also why wouldn't we fight about natural resources in the future?

There might even be more resources to fight over, like farmland, or especially fresh water.

War isn't the main theme of Interface Zero 2.0, it's just one element.

Jux wrote:

World is not only interconnected financially. It is also interconnected by blood. Relatives, children, colleagues live in different countries. There are tens of millions of Russians living outside Russia. In 2009 more than 3 milj. in USA. Big cities are totally international - New York, London, etc. And that takes place in accelerating pace. Now fast forward 60 years - you don't get WW2 (west vs east).


This setting isn't about West VS. East. It Never was. Currently, The United States has balkanized into a number of separate nations. The United States no longer exists like it does today.

I never meant to imply that people of different cultures stay in their home country, but a Russian will always be first and foremost a Russian, an Italian will always be an Italian. That's heritage, it's blood, and that will never change.

Jux wrote:

When going wild, I would suggest new union in geopolitics Eurasia (EU + Russia - after collapse of EU). Former EU and USA are political rivals. China and USA are in bigger conflict. China is the new center of the world.


WAY ahead of you, sir. See the first edition of Interface Zero. You just described the Political climate of Europe (Known in Interface Zero as the Eurasian Union.) Wink

Something you should be aware of. Everything I've mentioned is not going wild. It's a natural outgrowth of things that already exist in the first edition.


Jux wrote:

Also what is actually IZ2 compared to IZ1? Same setting with new polished rules?


The 2nd edition is not a simple not a rehashing of everything. It's moving the existing setting forward 2 years, and that is primarily what all the new setting fiction will be about.

There will be modifications to rules to make things much more streamlined, but that could be done by errata. I want to take this chance to do more with the setting in terms of story, plot, locations, etc.

Thank you so much for all your questions and comments!
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salcor
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David,
I am really looking forward to your kickstarter. I have been having a craving for cyberpunk that I have had in a long time. I find your future history about the uprising of Russia interesting. I am looking forward to seeing the rest. I am actually studying national security strategy for my masters degree, and science fiction is always a way to explore possible expansion. I am also really looking forward to see your expansion of the solar system colonies. When talking about warfare in the future, it is interesting to ponder how things will change. It is hard to say, would there actually be world war level units moving on the battlefield, or would kinetic aspects of warfare look more like a special operations force with the heavy fighting going on over hyperreality, and in space? Something I am contemplating for my thesis.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One major wish I have for a Kickstarter: Please keep it clear, and please be careful about the pledge level descriptions and breakdown. Options are nice, but too "sophisticated" a pledge system can just make things confusing. I've seen several Kickstarters that were putting out products that I might be interested in, but the wording was too ambiguous or everything was so disorganized that I was thrown off, and never bothered pledging.

If the Kickstarter is rife with typographical and grammatical errors, I'm inclined to think I can expect the same from any book this company is publishing. If I have to check an FAQ to see numerous places where the pledge-level text is incorrect (but it's locked as soon as someone makes a pledge at that level, so corrections can't be made), I'll wonder how many other errors I'm missing.

If there's a complex system of Tier 1 and Tier 2 stretch goals and bonus goals and add-ons and extras and other items which might or might not mean what they mean in other Kickstarters ... and there's too much to read through up front to figure out what is going on here, I'm likely to procrastinate sorting through it all. And, of course, if I put it off, I might not bother making a pledge before it's too late.

I also react badly if I discover what looks like a "gotcha" -- e.g., shipping/handling costs added on top of whatever I've pledged (and I'm in the same country where this company is located), or ambiguous language that makes it sound like I'm getting lots of extras with a certain pledge level -- but it turns out later (rather than up-front) that these are with an extra charge after all.

Anyway, I know that's rather vague, but that's just my general impression on some factors that made the difference in several recent Kickstarters as to whether I pledged or not.

I look forward to hearing more about the Kickstarter!
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Darq666
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stretch goals need to provide value add to the supporters, not just to you. Take a look at Andy's Low Life miniatures and how he did stretch goals. When you reached certain levels it gave value add to the current supporter levels.

The backers went insane pushing the project on all the boards they could think of, telling all their friends, going to local brick and mortar shops, etc. It didn't rely on current backers upping their pledges, though many did as the higher levels became more attractive through serious additional benefits. They made more money by having the community reach out and bring in more backers.

Andy did make certain special pieces available as add ons amd allowed backers to purchase additional copies of ones they had, but it wasn't all ablut add ons, it was about raising the toal and that benefitting everyone.

Be sure you look at the goals from the perspective of the people paying the money.

Dig up the Low Life minis kickstart and read through the comments!

Oh and collectors - special additions only available in kickstarter - that is another draw Very Happy Good hunting!
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Jux
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thurak wrote:

You seem to be pushing your perceptions of the setting ( and perhaps the genre) on what the setting actually is, which is probably why you don't understand it.
...
WAY ahead of you, sir. See the first edition of Interface Zero. You just described the Political climate of Europe (Known in Interface Zero as the Eurasian Union.) Wink


You are correct and as it seems, we are completely on the same page here. I just need to pick up IZ1 then Smile

But for IZ2, if Eurasia union already exists, why would Russia want to invade into Baltics? It is as if Germany would march to Greece now - seems pointless (although Greece is buying much military equipment today). Also it is good idea to not make it as a war setting - I think cold-war between Russia and China would be better than actual acts of war between them.
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DavidJ
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salcor wrote:
David,
I am really looking forward to your kickstarter. I have been having a craving for cyberpunk that I have had in a long time. I find your future history about the uprising of Russia interesting. I am looking forward to seeing the rest. I am actually studying national security strategy for my masters degree, and science fiction is always a way to explore possible expansion. I am also really looking forward to see your expansion of the solar system colonies. When talking about warfare in the future, it is interesting to ponder how things will change. It is hard to say, would there actually be world war level units moving on the battlefield, or would kinetic aspects of warfare look more like a special operations force with the heavy fighting going on over hyperreality, and in space? Something I am contemplating for my thesis.
Salcor


Salcor:

Good luck on your masters! It sounds like you're studying some very interesting topics.

I've been wondering if warfare in 2090 would take on a more "Kinetic" form. Honestly I haven't researched it enough, so I can't speak intelligently about it, but it's interesting that you mentioned it.

I'm still in the "war room" so to speak, planning how far this thing will go, and how large it might get. We're already seeing cyber warfare, what with the stuxnet (sp?) virus being used in Iran (something that's inspired part of my introduction to one of the plots in the setting, by the way), and I think the possibility of warfare in space is worth examining.

I certainly don't think it'll be a star wars type of deal, but in 2090 there are lunar colonies, orbital habitats, and war on earth_may_have some impact.

Thanks so much for your input!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jordan Peacock wrote:
One major wish I have for a Kickstarter: Please keep it clear, and please be careful about the pledge level descriptions and breakdown. Options are nice, but too "sophisticated" a pledge system can just make things confusing. I've seen several Kickstarters that were putting out products that I might be interested in, but the wording was too ambiguous or everything was so disorganized that I was thrown off, and never bothered pledging.

If the Kickstarter is rife with typographical and grammatical errors, I'm inclined to think I can expect the same from any book this company is publishing. If I have to check an FAQ to see numerous places where the pledge-level text is incorrect (but it's locked as soon as someone makes a pledge at that level, so corrections can't be made), I'll wonder how many other errors I'm missing.

If there's a complex system of Tier 1 and Tier 2 stretch goals and bonus goals and add-ons and extras and other items which might or might not mean what they mean in other Kickstarters ... and there's too much to read through up front to figure out what is going on here, I'm likely to procrastinate sorting through it all. And, of course, if I put it off, I might not bother making a pledge before it's too late.

I also react badly if I discover what looks like a "gotcha" -- e.g., shipping/handling costs added on top of whatever I've pledged (and I'm in the same country where this company is located), or ambiguous language that makes it sound like I'm getting lots of extras with a certain pledge level -- but it turns out later (rather than up-front) that these are with an extra charge after all.

Anyway, I know that's rather vague, but that's just my general impression on some factors that made the difference in several recent Kickstarters as to whether I pledged or not.

I look forward to hearing more about the Kickstarter!


Hiya Jordan. I'm leery of going nuts with a bunch of options beyond stretch goals. If things get ultra-complex, I worry I'll just confuse people.

So, yeah, we're on the same page here. If people want options to upgrade their pledges to get single items (like bennies or something), I'll certainly add that sort of thing in, but for the most part I want everything clear, grammatically accurate, and simple:

you back at X dollars and you get X item. But If you want Y item, you can pay an extra amount of of money to get it.

Shipping is very important. I don't want to alienate customers in different countries, so I'll be looking into ways to make that easier for people in different parts of the world. Right now it's too early to speculate on how shipping will be handled.

The writing in the kickstarter page will not be ambiguous. I just want to make sure everyone understands that. If I've given the wrong impression on this thread, I'm sorry.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darq666 wrote:
Stretch goals need to provide value add to the supporters, not just to you. Take a look at Andy's Low Life miniatures and how he did stretch goals. When you reached certain levels it gave value add to the current supporter levels.

The backers went insane pushing the project on all the boards they could think of, telling all their friends, going to local brick and mortar shops, etc. It didn't rely on current backers upping their pledges, though many did as the higher levels became more attractive through serious additional benefits. They made more money by having the community reach out and bring in more backers.

Andy did make certain special pieces available as add ons amd allowed backers to purchase additional copies of ones they had, but it wasn't all ablut add ons, it was about raising the toal and that benefitting everyone.

Be sure you look at the goals from the perspective of the people paying the money.

Dig up the Low Life minis kickstart and read through the comments!

Oh and collectors - special additions only available in kickstarter - that is another draw Very Happy Good hunting!


I've got the Low-life kickstarter bookmarked, actually. It's one of those that I'm trying to learn from. Smile

The key is incentivization of existing backers. To that end, I'm wanting to structure this so that every backer will at least get the electronic version of a Stretch goal (where appropriate).

I've always looked at stretch goals as something every back should get, even if a stretch goal was introducing a new product, like a sourcebook or a miniature. Without the backers, that goal wouldn't have been met, so it's only fair they get a copy.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jux wrote:


You are correct and as it seems, we are completely on the same page here. I just need to pick up IZ1 then Smile

But for IZ2, if Eurasia union already exists, why would Russia want to invade into Baltics? It is as if Germany would march to Greece now - seems pointless (although Greece is buying much military equipment today). Also it is good idea to not make it as a war setting - I think cold-war between Russia and China would be better than actual acts of war between them.


The "why" behind this war has a lot to do with what REALLY happened with the economic collapse of the EU, and that's not something I'm ready to share just yet.
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