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Combat Ratings
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SavageGamerGirl
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Combat Ratings Reply with quote

Has anyone gone through the monsters in SWD and figured out their Combat Ratings yet?

I think it would be neat to have an accounting of that, for those who'd like to use it.
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Takeda
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean there equivalent xp worth? That would be a huge undertaking ...
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SavageGamerGirl
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, using the Combat Rating system introduced in Deluxe edition, back in the GM's section.
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Virgobrown72
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I may do this for myself...
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Takeda
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SavageGamerGirl wrote:
No, using the Combat Rating system introduced in Deluxe edition, back in the GM's section.


Ooooooh! I have to admit I haven't read the SWD cover-to-cover yet. I'll look at that.
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GlassJaw
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Takeda wrote:
SavageGamerGirl wrote:
No, using the Combat Rating system introduced in Deluxe edition, back in the GM's section.


Ooooooh! I have to admit I haven't read the SWD cover-to-cover yet. I'll look at that.


It's a pretty simple formula. You should be able to make a calculator in Excel fairly easily.
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Cryonic
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GlassJaw wrote:
Takeda wrote:
SavageGamerGirl wrote:
No, using the Combat Rating system introduced in Deluxe edition, back in the GM's section.


Ooooooh! I have to admit I haven't read the SWD cover-to-cover yet. I'll look at that.


It's a pretty simple formula. You should be able to make a calculator in Excel fairly easily.

Well, since you're the first to suggest it, go ahead and do it, heheh.
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sablemage
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did that a while ago, I'll see if I can find the spreadsheet.

I found it wasn't as cut and dried as you might think, since there's often a judgement call on whether a special ability counts as a combat edge or not. For example, if a creature has "Armour +2", I wouldn't count that, as I am already adding (Toughness-5) to the CR; and if it has "Size +8" I ignore that, since (a) it's already in the Toughness and (b) being easier to hit doesn't sound like an advantage.
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sablemage
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here we go... monsters, summoned allies and archetypes alphabetically; you should allow a point or two either way for windage, since equipment and an individual GM's view of what is or is not a combat special ability can adjust the CV by that much.

Alligator/Crocodile: 7
Bear, Large: 9
Bull: 8
Cat, Small: 3
Dire Wolf: 5
Dog/Wolf: 4
Drake: 28
Dragon: 36
Elemental, Earth: 9
Elemental, Fire: 7
Elemental, Water: 7
Elemental, Air: 6
Giant Worm: 35
Ghost: 4
Goblin: 3
Horse, Riding: 5
Horse, War: 8
Lich: 19
Lion: 8
Mech (Sentinel): 8
Minotaur: 10
Mule: 4
Ogre: 10
Orc: 6
Orc Chieftain: 18
Shark, Great White: 10
Shark, Medium Maneater: 4
Skeleton: 5
Snake, Constrictor: 3
Snake, Venomous: 3
Spider, Giant: 5
Swarm: 4
Troll: 9
Vampire, Ancient: 23
Vampire, Young: 8
Werewolf: 8
Zombie: 4

Summoned Ally: Bodyguard: 8
Summoned Ally: Sentinel: 13

Archetype: Driver: 7
Archetype: Face: 6
Archetype: Fighter, Fencer: 8
Archetype: Fighter, Great Weapon: 13
Archetype: Investigator: 6
Archetype: Leader: 6
Archetype: Mage: 6
Archetype: Marksman: 9
Archetype: Martial Artist: 7
Archetype: Pilot: 7
Archetype: Pirate: 8
Archetype: Pistoleer: 8
Archetype: Priest, Healer: 6
Archetype: Rogue: 7
Archetype: Scientist: 4
Archetype: Scientist, Weird: 6
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sablemage
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here they are sorted by CV, rounded to the nearest whole number.

3: Cat, Small; Goblin; Snake, Constrictor; Snake, Venomous.

4: Archetype: Scientist; Dog/Wolf; Ghost; Mule; Shark, Medium Maneater; Swarm; Zombie.

5: Dire Wolf; Horse, Riding; Skeleton; Spider, Giant.

6: Archetypes - Face, Investigator, Leader, Mage, Priest (Healer), Scientist (Weird); Elemental, Air; Orc.

7: Archetypes - Driver, Martial Artist, Pilot, Rogue; Alligator/Crocodile; Elemental, Fire; Elemental, Water.

8: Archetypes - Fighter (Fencer), Pirate, Pistoleer; Bull; Horse, War; Lion; Mech (Sentinel); Summoned Ally (Bodyguard); Vampire, Young; Werewolf.

9: Archetype, Marksman; Bear, Large; Elemental, Earth; Troll.

10: Minotaur; Ogre; Shark, Great White.

13: Archetype - Fighter (Great Weapon); Summoned Ally (Sentinel).

18: Orc Chieftain.

19: Lich (don't forget the lich has 4d10 zombies with him, so his actual CV is 35-59).

23: Vampire, Ancient.

28: Drake.

35: Giant Worm.

36: Dragon.
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sablemage
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do not boogie with the Lich. He will mess you up.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say they all have a Combat Rating of 2. Twisted Evil Wink
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that the Dragon is the most. by a lot.

But...

A lich is more than 19. At 50 pp and every spell known, I'd say their "typical" attack is a 3d6 bolt.

so:
9 - 1/2 the max damage
10 - toughness of 15

that's 19 right there. plus maybe 3 for the undead traits, +1 for touch that wounds, then + something for knowing every spell in existence.
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

which is probably why they didn't publish the ratings. It's highly relative.
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Birbin
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sablemage wrote:
Ogre: 10

I calculated 21 for an ogre. Did you halve the sums for extras?
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sablemage
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Birbin wrote:
sablemage wrote:
Ogre: 10

I calculated 21 for an ogre. Did you halve the sums for extras?


Yes, I did. I think that's how CV works, but I could be wrong!
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sablemage
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
I like that the Dragon is the most. by a lot.

But...

A lich is more than 19. At 50 pp and every spell known, I'd say their "typical" attack is a 3d6 bolt.

so:
9 - 1/2 the max damage
10 - toughness of 15

that's 19 right there. plus maybe 3 for the undead traits, +1 for touch that wounds, then + something for knowing every spell in existence.


The CV depends on how many combat edges you count "50pp and knows every spell" as. Strictly, none of them are combat edges, and it's only one special ability... but I could understand making it worth more.

IMHO the liche is the most dangerous opponent in the bestiary, and it's his powers that do it. Death Touch and Invisibility are a vicious combination, especially if you're using summoned zombies to take the blame... Mind you, my liches tend to use their zombies and skeletons to do their dirty work, after all, why take any risks you don't have to...
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, things like high intimidate or taunt, high stealth don't factor in.

it's more of an estimate of (physical) combat ability

I think if I ran a lich, he'd mostly focus on escape plans. Invisibility, cast spells, and when the undead run low, bug out.
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sablemage
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ogbendog wrote:
I think if I ran a lich, he'd mostly focus on escape plans. Invisibility, cast spells, and when the undead run low, bug out.


Yeah, that works just fine. My main group of players ticked off a lich, and it was a couple of sessions before they worked out he was there, they just thought they were having a run of zombies and bad luck... then some smart a$$ thought to cast Detect Arcana, and it was time to bug out...

The great thing about zombies is they are easy to replace. Just follow the PCs around and you find all kinds of dead bodies, just ready for your extra-special-duration Zombie power.
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Thasmodious
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sablemage wrote:
The great thing about zombies is they are easy to replace. Just follow the PCs around and you find all kinds of dead bodies, just ready for your extra-special-duration Zombie power.


Ha, I love that idea. My PCs are about to run into a lich/demi god avatar and now I think he will shadow them providing he and they "live" after the encounter. I wonder how long it will take them to figure out why everyone they kill returns a few hours later to interrupt their camp.
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