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[SK] Confused over real life ranges

 
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RPGperik
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: [SK] Confused over real life ranges Reply with quote

It says on pp. 53-54 under Range that one inch equals 2 yards in the real world. But then it says that to know the real world range of a weapon I have to multiply the ranges by 2.5... To add to my confusion the resulting number is multiplied by 2 to get the real world range in yards...

Can someone clarify this confusing couple of paragraphs for me? Basically, waht I want to know is how to calculate real world weapons ranges from the listed stats. Do I multiply by 2 or by 5 (i.e. 2 x 2.5)? Confused
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Enno
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are mixed up "effective in-game" range with approximate "real world" ranges.

A dagger, for instance, has a range of 3/6/12.

On the tabletop or battlemap 1" (inch) compares to approximate 2 yards = 12 feet.

So on tabletop scale - the one you use your figure flats or miniatures on - the dagger has a range of 3"/6"/12" = 6/12/24 yds. Since most battlemaps have 1" hexes or squares as overlays, that corresponds to 3/6/12 squares/hexes.

If you want to compare weapon ranges in the real world, with no direct impact on the game, you multiply these ranges by another 2.5. So the above dagger has an approximate real range of 15/30/60 yds (*2*2.5). This is usually only needed when you convert a new weapon into game stats.

I hope that cleared this topic up for you. Wink
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RPGperik
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't intend to use miniatures and I need to have some idea of real world ranges and distances for my descriptions. So basically, distances in inches I have to multiply by 2 and weapons ranges I have to multiply by 5 to get real world values? Just checking if I got it right now... #unsure
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Enno
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep. You're correct.

As all ranges, speed of vehicles, paces of creatures etc are given in inches. To avoid confusion just stick with inches to avoid any confusion, and ignore the real world ranges completly (for now). For conflict resolution you need only the battlemap scale, even if you don't use one.

With miniatures or paper figures the scaling would be rather obvious, as the rules were written with miniatures in mind.

If you describe real ranges to your players just say: "about 2 yards/metres per inch given". Thats usually enough... Wink
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kronovan
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enno wrote:
On the tabletop or battlemap 1" (inch) compares to approximate 2 yards = 12 feet.

All the rest of your math is correct, but this measurement is off; correct value is 2 yards = 6 feet.

3rik wrote:
So basically, distances in inches I have to multiply by 2 and weapons ranges I have to multiply by 5 to get real world values?

Yes that's the correct formula to arrive at the real world range.

This won't help for SK, but something else that may help for a mapless and figueless game, is that for vehicle speeds you can use the 2.5x calculation for an arbetrary conversion. So for example, a vehicle with an in-game TS of 40" would have a real world top speed of 100 mph. It's arbetrary and SW isn't a simulation game, so the speeds often don't match up eactly with the real world values, but they're close enough if you need to mention them in descriptions.
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Crossroads
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enno wrote:
So the above dagger has an approximate real range of 15/30/60 yds (*2*2.5).


Should be 15/30/60 Feet (not yds).
~G
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RPGperik
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get why you have to use x2 for distances and x5 for ranges, though. Why not scale them all down by the same factor?

Oh, and if I read things correctly it *should* be yards, not feet, Crossroads.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rik wrote:
I don't get why you have to use x2 for distances and x5 for ranges, though. Why not scale them all down by the same factor?


As noted in the Distance section under Combat (pg. 70), if you are changing the scale for combat, it should affect all distances...

"Movement, weapon ranges, and the like are listed in inches to help when playing with miniatures. In the “real world,” each inch is equal to 2 yards.

If the Game Master needs a different scale to accommodate a larger battle, simply adjust weapon and movement ranges as needed."

The issue here is that the initial "real world distance" for the table-top range (1"=2 yds.) is different from the "real world range" of the weapons.

Hmm, that doesn't sound as clear as I hoped. How about this...

Effective game range has a "real world" corollary.
True "real world range" can be determined from that.

Don't know if that's any clearer. Let me know if either of those make sense.

Ultimately, the scale should stay the same to keep the game fun.
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RPGperik
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is, the whole inches thing is not useful to me as a GM since it won't mean anything to my players if I use it to describe a scene. We're not interested in using miniatures or any scaled type of maps.

So, to convert distances, speeds and ranges to actual descriptive values, what conversion formula(s) should I use?
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ranges are semi-abstract for use on a table-top. Most gaming tables are 4 feet square, or 4 feet by 8 feet; that's 48" by 96" for the largest size.

Real-life rifles have maximum effective ranges (against humans or "point targets") of ~500 yards. That would be 250" on the 1:72 scale that Savage Worlds defaults to. No one games with a table that large - which is why modern longarms had their ranges divided by about 2.5 for the rules.

Historic weapons have ranges much closer to their Savage Worlds stats. The Brown Bess is a muzzle-loading smooth-bore longarm that saw service in the British army for about two centuries (first produced in 1722, and was fielded by some units in the opening days of The Great War). It's as good or better than any equivalent weapon in Solomon Kane. Maximum effective range is ~100 yards or game 50". The 10/20/40 increment given in the Savage Worlds rules is about as good as the weapon can actually do.


If you want descriptive ranges for the SK weapons then simply turn the range into yards (multiply by 2). That's more than good enough for 16th century weapons.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rik wrote:
The thing is, the whole inches thing is not useful to me as a GM since it won't mean anything to my players if I use it to describe a scene. We're not interested in using miniatures or any scaled type of maps.

So, to convert distances, speeds and ranges to actual descriptive values, what conversion formula(s) should I use?


Really just need this one...

"Movement, weapon ranges, and the like are listed in inches to help when playing with miniatures. In the “real world,” each inch is equal to 2 yards."

Though if it is easier for the group to think in terms of meters, you could easily change it to 1" = 2m and it would not affect the game at all.
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RPGperik
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, so I'll just double all the numbers and say it's meters. Would that suffice for deadlands as well?
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3rik wrote:
OK, so I'll just double all the numbers and say it's meters. Would that suffice for deadlands as well?

It will suffice for just about any Savage game. #gunbattle
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ogbendog
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "real world" range is if you have a gun nut who says, "Hey, this rifle is listed as having a range of X>>>"
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