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RPGperik Novice
Joined: 19 Sep 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Ye Nether Lands

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:55 am Post subject: [SK] Confused over real life ranges 


It says on pp. 5354 under Range that one inch equals 2 yards in the real world. But then it says that to know the real world range of a weapon I have to multiply the ranges by 2.5... To add to my confusion the resulting number is multiplied by 2 to get the real world range in yards...
Can someone clarify this confusing couple of paragraphs for me? Basically, waht I want to know is how to calculate real world weapons ranges from the listed stats. Do I multiply by 2 or by 5 (i.e. 2 x 2.5)? _________________ RPGbericht (Dutch) 

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Enno Veteran
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 632 Location: Ulm, Germany

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:28 am Post subject: 


You are mixed up "effective ingame" range with approximate "real world" ranges.
A dagger, for instance, has a range of 3/6/12.
On the tabletop or battlemap 1" (inch) compares to approximate 2 yards = 12 feet.
So on tabletop scale  the one you use your figure flats or miniatures on  the dagger has a range of 3"/6"/12" = 6/12/24 yds. Since most battlemaps have 1" hexes or squares as overlays, that corresponds to 3/6/12 squares/hexes.
If you want to compare weapon ranges in the real world, with no direct impact on the game, you multiply these ranges by another 2.5. So the above dagger has an approximate real range of 15/30/60 yds (*2*2.5). This is usually only needed when you convert a new weapon into game stats.
I hope that cleared this topic up for you. _________________ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who know binary and those who don't. 

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RPGperik Novice
Joined: 19 Sep 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Ye Nether Lands

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:35 am Post subject: 


I don't intend to use miniatures and I need to have some idea of real world ranges and distances for my descriptions. So basically, distances in inches I have to multiply by 2 and weapons ranges I have to multiply by 5 to get real world values? Just checking if I got it right now... _________________ RPGbericht (Dutch) 

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Enno Veteran
Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 632 Location: Ulm, Germany

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: 


Yep. You're correct.
As all ranges, speed of vehicles, paces of creatures etc are given in inches. To avoid confusion just stick with inches to avoid any confusion, and ignore the real world ranges completly (for now). For conflict resolution you need only the battlemap scale, even if you don't use one.
With miniatures or paper figures the scaling would be rather obvious, as the rules were written with miniatures in mind.
If you describe real ranges to your players just say: "about 2 yards/metres per inch given". Thats usually enough... _________________ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who know binary and those who don't. 

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kronovan Veteran
Joined: 01 Mar 2011 Posts: 796

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:54 am Post subject: 


Enno wrote:  On the tabletop or battlemap 1" (inch) compares to approximate 2 yards = 12 feet. 
All the rest of your math is correct, but this measurement is off; correct value is 2 yards = 6 feet.
3rik wrote:  So basically, distances in inches I have to multiply by 2 and weapons ranges I have to multiply by 5 to get real world values? 
Yes that's the correct formula to arrive at the real world range.
This won't help for SK, but something else that may help for a mapless and figueless game, is that for vehicle speeds you can use the 2.5x calculation for an arbetrary conversion. So for example, a vehicle with an ingame TS of 40" would have a real world top speed of 100 mph. It's arbetrary and SW isn't a simulation game, so the speeds often don't match up eactly with the real world values, but they're close enough if you need to mention them in descriptions. 

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Crossroads Novice
Joined: 30 Jan 2010 Posts: 39

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:29 am Post subject: 


Enno wrote:  So the above dagger has an approximate real range of 15/30/60 yds (*2*2.5). 
Should be 15/30/60 Feet (not yds).
~G 

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RPGperik Novice
Joined: 19 Sep 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Ye Nether Lands

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:45 am Post subject: 


I don't get why you have to use x2 for distances and x5 for ranges, though. Why not scale them all down by the same factor?
Oh, and if I read things correctly it *should* be yards, not feet, Crossroads. _________________ RPGbericht (Dutch) 

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Clint Site Admin
Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 18435

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:46 pm Post subject: 


3rik wrote:  I don't get why you have to use x2 for distances and x5 for ranges, though. Why not scale them all down by the same factor? 
As noted in the Distance section under Combat (pg. 70), if you are changing the scale for combat, it should affect all distances...
"Movement, weapon ranges, and the like are listed in inches to help when playing with miniatures. In the “real world,” each inch is equal to 2 yards.
If the Game Master needs a different scale to accommodate a larger battle, simply adjust weapon and movement ranges as needed."
The issue here is that the initial "real world distance" for the tabletop range (1"=2 yds.) is different from the "real world range" of the weapons.
Hmm, that doesn't sound as clear as I hoped. How about this...
Effective game range has a "real world" corollary.
True "real world range" can be determined from that.
Don't know if that's any clearer. Let me know if either of those make sense.
Ultimately, the scale should stay the same to keep the game fun. _________________ Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager
www.peginc.com 

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RPGperik Novice
Joined: 19 Sep 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Ye Nether Lands

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: 


The thing is, the whole inches thing is not useful to me as a GM since it won't mean anything to my players if I use it to describe a scene. We're not interested in using miniatures or any scaled type of maps.
So, to convert distances, speeds and ranges to actual descriptive values, what conversion formula(s) should I use? _________________ RPGbericht (Dutch) 

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ValhallaGH Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 6412

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:04 pm Post subject: 


Ranges are semiabstract for use on a tabletop. Most gaming tables are 4 feet square, or 4 feet by 8 feet; that's 48" by 96" for the largest size.
Reallife rifles have maximum effective ranges (against humans or "point targets") of ~500 yards. That would be 250" on the 1:72 scale that Savage Worlds defaults to. No one games with a table that large  which is why modern longarms had their ranges divided by about 2.5 for the rules.
Historic weapons have ranges much closer to their Savage Worlds stats. The Brown Bess is a muzzleloading smoothbore longarm that saw service in the British army for about two centuries (first produced in 1722, and was fielded by some units in the opening days of The Great War). It's as good or better than any equivalent weapon in Solomon Kane. Maximum effective range is ~100 yards or game 50". The 10/20/40 increment given in the Savage Worlds rules is about as good as the weapon can actually do.
If you want descriptive ranges for the SK weapons then simply turn the range into yards (multiply by 2). That's more than good enough for 16th century weapons. _________________ "Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." 

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Clint Site Admin
Joined: 13 May 2003 Posts: 18435

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:48 pm Post subject: 


3rik wrote:  The thing is, the whole inches thing is not useful to me as a GM since it won't mean anything to my players if I use it to describe a scene. We're not interested in using miniatures or any scaled type of maps.
So, to convert distances, speeds and ranges to actual descriptive values, what conversion formula(s) should I use? 
Really just need this one...
"Movement, weapon ranges, and the like are listed in inches to help when playing with miniatures. In the “real world,” each inch is equal to 2 yards."
Though if it is easier for the group to think in terms of meters, you could easily change it to 1" = 2m and it would not affect the game at all. _________________ Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager
www.peginc.com 

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RPGperik Novice
Joined: 19 Sep 2012 Posts: 21 Location: Ye Nether Lands

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:17 pm Post subject: 


OK, so I'll just double all the numbers and say it's meters. Would that suffice for deadlands as well? _________________ RPGbericht (Dutch) 

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ValhallaGH Legendary
Joined: 25 Apr 2010 Posts: 6412

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:43 pm Post subject: 


3rik wrote:  OK, so I'll just double all the numbers and say it's meters. Would that suffice for deadlands as well? 
It will suffice for just about any Savage game. _________________ "Got a problem? I've got the solution: Rocket Launcher."
"Not against a Servitor."
"... We're all gonna die." 

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ogbendog Legendary
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 2540

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: 


The "real world" range is if you have a gun nut who says, "Hey, this rifle is listed as having a range of X>>>" 

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