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Hit Location
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chillburn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject: Hit Location Reply with quote

Thinking of adding a Hit Location roll.
OK, so I recognize that this is not Fast, but it's something my group likes and we miss from DL Classic rules. We also have these neat d12's that have a stick figure man with hit locations:
    two for each arm
    two for each leg
    three for torso
    one for head

I'm thinking of using it in my next game with the following rules (replacing the standard -1 to rolls and pace per wound):
- Four wounds total still results in Incapacitation, doesn't matter how those wounds are spread out.
- Penalties:
    Arm: -1 to all rolls, -2 to any rolls involving the wounded arm (per wound)
    Leg: -2 pace (per wound) [If someone's pace is reduced to 0 then they can only move by spending an action to run d6", or be carried]
    Torso: Standard -1 to all rolls and pace (per wound)
    Head: -2 to all rolls (per wound)

I'm planning to make up little cards to give people as reminders ("Congratulations! You just received a HEAD wound, here's what you get...")
So here are the questions:
    1. Do the penalties seem fairly balanced, given the locations hit?
    2. What about cover? I was thinking of two options:
      A. If an attack hits (after penalties) and would hit a location blocked by cover, then the hit defaults to the torso.
      B. Remove the penalties for firing at someone in cover, but if the location rolled is behind cover, then the target gets armor as per the Obstacles rule

I'm leaning toward B because it seems more realistic and may encourage people to think about called shots, etc. a little more (my group rarely tries called shots, considering the risk not worth the reward).
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kronovan
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:30 am    Post subject: Re: Hit Location Reply with quote

I think your system is doable, but it'll definitely cut down on some of the FFF of gameplay. From your comments you're aware of that though, so no problem if you're willing to make that sacrifice.

chillburn wrote:
Leg: -2 pace (per wound) [If someone's pace is reduced to 0 then they can only move by spending an action to run d6", or be carried

Is your intent here to use the run play mechanic for another purpose, like a staggering walk? If not, I have a problem visualizing how someone with wounds to their legs could run.

Quote:
2. What about cover? I was thinking of two options:
    A. If an attack hits (after penalties) and would hit a location blocked by cover, then the hit defaults to the torso.
    B. Remove the penalties for firing at someone in cover, but if the location rolled is behind cover, then the target gets armor as per the Obstacles rule
[/list]
I'm leaning toward B because it seems more realistic and may encourage people to think about called shots, etc. a little more (my group rarely tries called shots, considering the risk not worth the reward).

I think option B is really your only choice if you want to maintain some form of cover in gameplay, but I think its less than ideal. The -1 to -4 penalty is much more of a factor on a To-hit roll than an obstacle bonus is to toughness. That will depend a lot though on what they're taking cover behind and what damage their foe can deal.
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Ogma
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like most of us, I want my SW games to be "Fast", "Furious", and "Fun", so if it ever comes down to needing hit locations in my games, I use this "complicated" system available from Chessex Smile :


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Takeda
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ogma wrote:
Like most of us, I want my SW games to be "Fast", "Furious", and "Fun", so if it ever comes down to needing hit locations in my games, I use this "complicated" system available from Chessex Smile :



Cool! I'll have to see if I can find it locally ... because living in Canada if I were to order that and have it shipped over the border I just bought the Brooklyn Bridge. Wink
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chillburn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ogma wrote:
Like most of us, I want my SW games to be "Fast", "Furious", and "Fun", so if it ever comes down to needing hit locations in my games, I use this "complicated" system available from Chessex Smile :



That is the d12 I'm talking about.
We also have a version that has words instead of the stick-man, but we don't like it as much (words don't translate perfectly to valid locations):


Last edited by chillburn on Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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ValhallaGH
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just use either the Injuries table for hit locations, or the Classic Deadlands table.
Otherwise, I leave the rules alone.
Arms - roll Strength versus damage or drop the item. (Borrowed from disarm.)
Legs - roll Strength / Agility versus damage or fall prone. (House Rule, inspired by disarm.)
Head - that +4 damage is benefit enough.
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chillburn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ValhallaGH wrote:

Head - that +4 damage is benefit enough.


I totally forgot about that. Maybe the penalty for a head shot shouldn't be any worse than torso? Basically the fact that it automatically does +1 wound level is enough. So:

Arm: -1 to all rolls, -2 to any rolls involving the wounded arm (per wound)
Leg: -2 pace (per wound) [If someone's pace is reduced to 0 then they can only move by spending an action to run d6", or be carried]
Torso: Standard -1 to all rolls and pace (per wound)
Head: +4 to damage roll, penalties as Torso
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chillburn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Hit Location Reply with quote

kronovan wrote:

Is your intent here to use the run play mechanic for another purpose, like a staggering walk? If not, I have a problem visualizing how someone with wounds to their legs could run.


Yes, in this context "run" is really "moving anyway possible".

The game I'm working is going to be based on the "DayZ" mod video game, so running and/or chases should figure prominently.
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canology
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it, it seems fairly elegant and simple to use. I think that the tension of the hit-location roll and the little extra paperwork (damage to different locations) boost the Fun enough to counterbalance the slight loss of Fast.

That said, Fast is my least important of the F's, so I may be biased. Smile
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Bhoritz
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Hit Location Reply with quote

chillburn wrote:

- Four wounds total still results in Incapacitation, doesn't matter how those wounds are spread out.

I think that this is the most important point to avoid the "Monty Python Black Knight" syndrom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
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newForumNewName
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread might be relevant.
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Virgobrown72
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would just use the wounds table...
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Takeda
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That hit location D12 is $7.00 and 28mm tall by the way. I couldn't find it listed on their catalogue so I emailed and that's what I was told.

Cool thing is it's big enough everyone around the table would be able to read it. Smile
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Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"
[Dean nods]
Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"
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johnnii
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always saw the Gritty damage rules from SWD as the official hit location rule. Any reason to use that or it might be to harsh with penalties?
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Takeda
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnnii wrote:
I always saw the Gritty damage rules from SWD as the official hit location rule. Any reason to use that or it might be to harsh with penalties?


For combat I'm not going to change anything but for truly random hit location like falling rocks or stray bullets/arrows, etc. the random generation makes sense.
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[Dean nods]
Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"
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Mylon
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like to lump the damage results as a hit location effect.

Just landed a 26 damage hit? That was actually a headshot and it hit so hard because it bypassed armor and got +4.
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Kodyax
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'n hearing a lot of good arguments. Although I may have to look for the dice. Something to roll can add to the drama of the narrative.
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Yuri
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We used that the Hit Location die about a month ago in our Deadlands Game.

Once of the players was a Harrowed Mad Scientist, and his second gadget blew up and took his to the Incapacitated Table. As a lark, I said "hey, let's see where that damage occurred"

He rolls, and it comes up Head Shot!!! He laughed... his character did die that evening! The player thought it was all very reasonable and added to the game.

Y
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The Dread Polack
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mylon wrote:
I like to lump the damage results as a hit location effect.

Just landed a 26 damage hit? That was actually a headshot and it hit so hard because it bypassed armor and got +4.


Me too. It seems like every time I've tried using hit locations, I end up doing massive damage to the left foot, or something that just doesn't make sense. It just seems to me to be easier to determind damage normally, and any side-effects from it, and explain how it got that way.
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Maine
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't this already covered by one of the damage variants in Deluxe, which suggests to roll on the Incapacitation chart whenever a Wound is sustained?

Outside of AoE effects (which are pretty indiscriminate, and unlikely that only a single body party is going to be affected), this matters most for aimed attacks.

If you are taking a shot at something, you are aiming at something on that target - either a called shot (and we have our location then) or center of mass (torso). The likelihood of hitting limbs is still present, but the chance of hitting hands/feet is much, much smaller unless they are intervening. The position of the target matters.

Finally, remember that most of the Injuries can be some heft penalties on top of the Wounds...
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