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[GRAmel] Do polskich graczy

 
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JPCannon
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:00 am    Post subject: [GRAmel] Do polskich graczy Reply with quote

Smile Witam. Niestety forum Gramela aktualnie nie funkcjonuje, a w sieci ciężko znaleźć dobre miejsce, gdzie gracze faktycznie rozmawiają o Savage Worlds. Pomyślałem więc by stworzyć chociaż temat dla polaków na głównym forum. Dało by to szansę pytać o zasady itp osób które dobrze nie znają angielskiego, lub zwyczajnie męczy je czytanie i pisanie w tym języku Smile Zauważyłem, że na forum jest trochę polaków, nawet wśród Twórców czy Moderatorów. Sądzę, że jest więc szansa, byśmy od czasu do czasu mogli tutaj otrzymać odpowiedź w rodzimym języku. Jeśli zaś aktywność tematu będzie duża to może z czasem na forum powstanie dział obcojęzyczny Smile

Także piszcie tu jeśli macie jakiekolwiek pytania co do mechaniki, pomysły na przygody czy konwersje, swoje przygody które chcieli byście pokazać innym czy cokolwiek innego co jest związane z Savage Worlds Smile

Pozdrawiam!

---------------------------------------

Zacznę od razu od własnego pytania Smile Mianowicie:

Wypytywanie czy przekonywanie?

Zastanawiam się kiedy używać którego z tych skilli? Zauważyłem, że wypytywania używa się niezmiernie rzadko, bo przecież jeśli kogoś przepytujemy to możemy go przekonać przekonywaniem, by powiedział nam to co chcemy wiedzieć. Jak rozdzielić te skille i w jakich dokładniej sytuacjach według was ich używać.

Podobny problem mam z wyszukiwaniem. Przydaje się to tak naprawdę tylko do szukania w książkach, bo jeśli ktoś zna się na kompach to i tak ma taką widzę i pewnie będzie jej używał do znajdowania danych. Stąd zauważyłem, że gracze bardzo rzadko wybierają skille wypytywania i wyszukiwania. Do czego naprawdę przydają się te skille i jak przekonać graczy by chętniej w nie inwestowali?
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raikenclw
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 222
Location: Sevier County, Tennessee

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:39 am    Post subject: Re: Do polskich graczy Reply with quote

JPCannon wrote:
Smile Witam. Niestety forum Gramela aktualnie nie funkcjonuje, a w sieci ciężko . . .


Ummmm. . . .

I think you forgot to translate from the Polish.

Just a guess, mind. Smile

Dzięki uprzejmości "Google Translate:"

Chyba zapomniał przetłumaczyć z polskiego.

Tylko przypuszczenie, umysł.
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JPCannon
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn`t translate this couse i creat this topic for Polish players. I tray to creat topic where people who don`t speak english, but they want to talk about Savage Worlds and they have some questions. Smile
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raikenclw
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012
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Location: Sevier County, Tennessee

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JPCannon wrote:
I didn`t translate this couse i creat this topic for Polish players. I tray to creat topic where people who don`t speak english, but they want to talk about Savage Worlds and they have some questions. Smile


It's just a thought, but you might want to ask the Admins if there is already a dedicated version of this board for those who speak Polish as their primary language. Since they've gone to the trouble to publish the books/PDFs in Polish - some years back now - there might already be such support.

If there isn't, maybe you could get them to let you start an official one! Smile
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JPCannon
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is, but actually is off-line. There are some fan forums but only few peoples write there. I thougth that maybe if here people response so oftet, that polish players will be more active.
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Clint
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Joined: 13 May 2003
Posts: 17694

PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raikenclw wrote:
JPCannon wrote:
I didn`t translate this couse i creat this topic for Polish players. I tray to creat topic where people who don`t speak english, but they want to talk about Savage Worlds and they have some questions. Smile


It's just a thought, but you might want to ask the Admins if there is already a dedicated version of this board for those who speak Polish as their primary language. Since they've gone to the trouble to publish the books/PDFs in Polish - some years back now - there might already be such support.


Kind of an important clarification, Pinnacle did not publish the books in Polish; a licensee did that, the same as with the German version, et. al. We trusted people who know the language to handle those versions.

Which kind of is my predicament here. I don't know Polish, and I didn't even realize the purpose of the thread was to discuss Savage Worlds; I just thought it was a request to find out what other Polish players were on the forums. If it's actually about discussing the rules and asking questions, then the Break Room isn't really the topic for such things.

So based on these criteria, we'll move the thread to the SW Licensees topic. I'll also edit the Subject to include [GRAmel] for consistency.
_________________
Clint Black
Savage Worlds Core Rules Brand Manager

www.peginc.com
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raikenclw
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 222
Location: Sevier County, Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
Kind of an important clarification, Pinnacle did not publish the books in Polish; a licensee did that, the same as with the German version, et. al. We trusted people who know the language to handle those versions.


Sorry! I was trying to be careful, since I knew I didn't know what I was talking about to begin with. Guess I wasn't careful enough!

Clint wrote:
Which kind of is my predicament here. I don't know Polish, and I didn't even realize the purpose of the thread was to discuss Savage Worlds;


I don't speak Polish either. But there some Polish speakers around here locally (students on temp visas working in tourism), so I've actually encountered it. I also remember the old Twilight: 2000 game fondly. This made me just curious enough to copy/paste the original post into Google Translate and see what came out.

Clint wrote:
I just thought it was a request to find out what other Polish players were on the forums. If it's actually about discussing the rules and asking questions, then the Break Room isn't really the topic for such things.


NOTE: As best as I can make out, the bottom part of the original post (below the line) concerns the Investigation and Streetwise skills. That isn't how Google actually translated the relevant Polish words for me, but it seems to be their meaning from context. The post author goes on to say that nobody he games with chooses either skill during generation and asks if this is common to other's experience. If so, he wonders if there is anything which should/could be done to encourage their use.
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raikenclw
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 222
Location: Sevier County, Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JPCannon wrote:
It is, but actually is off-line. There are some fan forums but only few peoples write there. I thougth that maybe if here people response so oftet, that polish players will be more active.


You know, something occurs to me:

If I were to process something through Google Translate from English to Polish, then open another window and process the result back from Polish to English, I could check to see if the program made any strange word choices on me.

Let's give it a whirl:

MY ENGLISH TO GOOGLE POLISH:

"Gdybym miał coś do przetworzenia przez Google Tłumacz z angielskiego na polski, a następnie otworzyć kolejne okno i przetworzyć wynik z powrotem z polskiego na angielski, mogę sprawdzić, czy program, żadnych dziwnych wyborów słowo na mnie."

GOOGLE POLISH TO GOOGLE ENGLISH:

"If I had something to be processed by Google Translator from English to Polish, and then open another window and convert the result back from Polish to English, I can confirm that the program, no strange word choice for me."

Hmmm. There seems to be a verb missing from the last bit, but it's still understandable.
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JPCannon
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Joined: 09 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Google Translate isn`t bad, but you can imagine how it is to check any line of text in translator Smile I can write in english, maybe not to good but i can. I create this for people who simple want speak in they native language, without translator. If someone ask me, i think that can be great to create section for another languages, not only polish but any another than english, for people who want use oficial forum, but they don`t know english. I`m sure is there mutch people witch are in this situation.

If someone think it is not good idea, becouse another who don`t know for example polish can`t read that topic, you simply show that isn`t any problem, couse you can use google translate too Smile

I really thanks anybody who interested in this case Smile
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raikenclw
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012
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Location: Sevier County, Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JPCannon wrote:
Yes, Google Translate isn`t bad, but you can imagine how it is to check any line of text in translator Smile


Yes. I can. I must communicate with our housekeepers using Google Spanish quite often . . . Smile

JPCannon wrote:
I can write in english, maybe not to good but i can.


You're doing fine. You tend to add in extra letters which sound like they should be in that particular word (if English made sense . . . ) and every so often you confuse words that sound alike when spoken: "witch" is a magic user while "which" is the pronoun you likely meant. But these are no problem to figure out. To tell the truth, you write English *better* than many native speakers! Smile

JPCannon wrote:
I create this for people who simple want speak in they native language, without translator. If someone ask me, i think that can be great to create section for another languages, not only polish but any another than english, for people who want use oficial forum, but they don`t know english. I`m sure is there mutch people witch are in this situation.


I hope it works, too. The more, the merrier, I say! Smile

One suggestion I would make:
There should be some standard way to mark each post, so that anyone reading it will instantly know if the post was originally written in that language or if a translation program was used by someone who doesn't actually speak/write it. Flame wars are common enough when someone intentionally says something wrong. To start one just because of a mis-translated word would be terrible!

JPCannon wrote:
If someone think it is not good idea, becouse another who don`t know for example polish can`t read that topic, you simply show that isn`t any problem, couse you can use google translate too Smile

I really thanks anybody who interested in this case Smile


In that spirit, I am using Google Translate to convert the above into Polish, below this line:
___________________________________________________________

JPCannon wrote:
Tak, Google Translate isn `t źle, ale można sobie wyobrazić, jak to jest, aby sprawdzić każdą linię tekstu w translator Smile


Tak. Mogę. Muszę komunikować się z naszymi gospodynie za pomocą Google hiszpański dość często. . . Smile

JPCannon wrote:
można napisać w języku angiel kim, może nie do dobra, ale mogę.


Robisz dobrze. Masz tendencję, aby dodać w dodatkowych liter, które brzmią jak powinny być one w tym słowie (jeśli polski sens ...), a co tak często mylą podobnie brzmiące słowa, gdy mówi: "czarownica" jest magia użytkownika, a ", który" jest zaimek to prawdopodobnie oznaczało. Ale to nie ma problemu, aby dowiedzieć się. Prawdę mówiąc, piszesz angielski * lepiej * niż wielu native speakerów! Smile

JPCannon wrote:
tworzę to dla ludzi, którzy chcą mówić w prosty oni ojczystym języku, bez tłumacza. Jeśli ktoś o mnie, myślę, że może być wielki, aby utworzyć punkt na kolejne języki, nie tylko polskich, ale każdy inny niż angielski, dla ludzi, którzy chcą use Oficjalne forum, ale nie wiem angielski. Jestem pewien czy jest mutch ludzie witch są w takiej sytuacji.


Mam nadzieję, że to działa, też. Im więcej, tym lepiej, mówię! Smile

Jedna sugestia to uczynić:
Nie powinno być pewne standardowy sposób oznaczyć każdy post, tak, że czytanie ktoś będzie natychmiast wiedzieć, czy post został napisany w tym języku, albo jeżeli program tłumaczenia został wykorzystany przez kogoś, kto w rzeczywistości nie mówić / pisać. Wojen są dosyć często, gdy ktoś celowo mówi coś złego. Aby uruchomić jeden tylko z powodu błędnie przetłumaczone słowo byłoby straszne!

JPCannon wrote:
Jeśli ktoś, że to nie jest dobry pomysł, poniewaz inny, który nie wiem na przykład polskich can `t czytać tego tematu, po prostu pokazać, że isn` t jakiś problem, couse można użyć google translate zbyt Smile

Naprawdę dziękuję każdemu, kto interesuje w tym przypadku Smile
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raikenclw
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Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Posts: 222
Location: Sevier County, Tennessee

PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

raikenclw wrote:
In that spirit, I am using Google Translate to convert the above into Polish . . .


There is one issue with using Google Translate. It seems that the translator wants to put spaces between "/" and "=" symbols and those words separated by them. I suspect that it thinks you are trying to type a math equation. So you have to manually remove these spaces, in order for the board's quoting function to work.

____________________________________________________________


raikenclw wrote:
W tym duchu, używam Google Translate do konwersji powyżej język polski. . .


Jest jeden problem z pomocą Google Translate. Wydaje się, że tłumacz chce umieszczać spacji między "/" i "=" symboli i tych słów oddzielonych nich. Podejrzewam, że myśli, że próbujesz wpisać równanie matematyczne. Więc trzeba ręcznie usunąć te przestrzenie, aby w zarządzie funkcję powołując do pracy.
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