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Skill Specialization List (comprehensive?)

 
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JDGwf
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Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 128
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 1:55 pm    Post subject: Skill Specialization List (comprehensive?) Reply with quote

Hi everyone. I'm attempting to create a somewhat comprehensive skill specialization list for some of us who prefer to use that setting rule.

Input is greatly appreciated and I'll update this list as we agree what may go where and what needs to be removed or added.

Some of these come straight from Deluxe, some of these were imported from other games.

Thanks for looking and your help!

Savage Worlds Skill Specializations

Boating ( Agility )
  • Sailing
  • Powered
  • Naval (very large ships)

Climbing ( Strength )
Driving ( Agility )
  • Cycles
  • Hover
  • Tracked
  • Wheeled

Fighting ( Agility )
  • Axe
  • Blunt Weapon
  • Exotic (such as nunchaku; each is separate)
  • Long blade
  • Pole arm
  • Short blade
  • Unarmed Combat

Gambling ( Smarts )
  • Card Games
  • Dice Games
  • Roulette
  • Slots

Healing ( Smarts )
  • First Aid
  • General Practice
  • Surgery

Intimidation ( Spirit )
  • Mental
  • Physical
  • Social

Investigation ( Smarts )
  • Hacking
  • Internet
  • Library

Knowledge ( Smarts )
  • Astrogation
  • Battle
  • Biology
  • Chemistry
  • Computers
  • Electronics
  • History (per world)
  • Journalism
  • Language (per world)
  • Law (per world)
  • Medicine
  • Physics

Lockpicking ( Agility )
  • Combination Locks
  • Electronic Locks
  • Key Locks

Notice ( Smarts )
  • Search
  • Scrutinize
  • Observe

Persuasion ( Spirit )
  • Bribes
  • Pity
  • Sex Appeal

Piloting ( Agility )
  • Fixed Wing
  • Mecha
  • Rotary
  • Space

Repair ( Smarts )
  • Clockwork
  • Computers
  • Cycles
  • Domestic
  • Electrical
  • Fixed Wing Aircraft
  • Hover
  • Mecha
  • Naval Ships
  • Powered Ships
  • Rotary Wing Aircraft
  • Sailing Ships
  • Spacecraft
  • Steam Ships
  • Structure
  • Tracked
  • Weapon
  • Wheeled

Riding ( Agility )
  • Camel
  • Exotic (per setting)
  • Horse

Shooting ( Agility )
  • Bow
  • Crossbow
  • Heavy
  • Mounted Weapon
  • Pistol
  • Rifle
  • Rocket
  • Shotgun

Stealth ( Agility )
  • Arctic
  • Desert
  • Island/Beach
  • Jungle
  • Mountain
  • Plains
  • Swampland
  • Urban
  • Woodlands

Streetwise ( Smarts )
  • Bribes
  • Threats
  • Carousing

Survival ( Smarts )
  • Arctic
  • Desert
  • Island/Beach
  • Jungle
  • Mountain
  • Plains
  • Swampland
  • Urban
  • Woodlands

Swimming ( Agility )
Taunt ( Smarts )
  • One-Upmanship
  • Poor Humor
  • Ridicule

Throwing ( Agility )
  • Knife/Axe - like (i.e. wrist flick throw)
  • Spear -like (Straight Throw)
  • Sports Throw (football/baseball)

Tracking ( Smarts )
  • Arctic
  • Desert
  • Island/Beach
  • Jungle
  • Mountain
  • Plains
  • Swampland
  • Urban
  • Woodlands
  • Urban

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Last edited by JDGwf on Fri May 30, 2014 2:54 pm; edited 2 times in total
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robert4818
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Skill Specialization List (comprehensive?) Reply with quote

JDGwf wrote:
Hi everyone. I'm attempting to create a somewhat comprehensive skill specialization list for some of us who prefer to use that setting rule.

Input is greatly appreciated and I'll update this list as we agree what may go where and what needs to be removed or added.

Some of these come straight from Deluxe, some of these were imported from other games.

Thanks for looking and your help!

Savage Worlds Skill Specializations

Boating ( Agility )
  • Sailing
  • Powered
  • Steam
  • Naval (very large ships)

Climbing ( Strength )
Driving ( Agility )
  • Cycles
  • Hover
  • Tracked
  • Wheeled

Fighting ( Agility )
  • Axe
  • Blunt Weapon
  • Exotic (such as nunchaku; each is separate)
  • Long blade
  • Pole arm
  • Short blade
  • Unarmed Combat

Gambling ( Smarts )
  • Card Games
  • Dice Games
  • Roulette
  • Slots

Healing ( Smarts )
  • First Aid
  • General Practice
  • Surgery

Intimidation ( Spirit )
  • Mental
  • Physical
  • Social

Investigation ( Smarts )
  • Hacking
  • Internet
  • Library

Knowledge ( Smarts )
  • Astrogation
  • Battle
  • Biology
  • Chemistry
  • Computers
  • Electronics
  • History (per world)
  • Journalism
  • Language (per world)
  • Law (per world)
  • Medicine
  • Physics

Lockpicking ( Agility )
  • Electronic Locks
  • Mechanical Locks

Notice ( Smarts )
  • Search
  • Scrutinize
  • Observe

Persuasion ( Spirit )
  • Bribes
  • Pity
  • Sex Appeal

Piloting ( Agility )
  • Fixed Wing
  • Mecha
  • Rotary
  • Space

Repair ( Smarts )
  • Clockwork
  • Computers
  • Cycles
  • Domestic
  • Electrical
  • Fixed Wing Aircraft
  • Hover
  • Mecha
  • Naval Ships
  • Powered Ships
  • Rotary Wing Aircraft
  • Sailing Ships
  • Spacecraft
  • Steam Ships
  • Structure
  • Tracked
  • Weapon
  • Wheeled

Riding ( Agility )
  • Camel
  • Horse

Shooting ( Agility )
  • Bow
  • Crossbow
  • Heavy
  • Mounted Weapon
  • Pistol
  • Rifle
  • Rocket
  • Shotgun

Stealth ( Agility )
  • Arctic
  • Desert
  • Island/Beach
  • Jungle
  • Mountain
  • Plains
  • Swampland
  • Urban
  • Woodlands

Streetwise ( Smarts )
  • Bribes
  • Threats
  • Carousing

Survival ( Smarts )
  • Arctic
  • Desert
  • Island/Beach
  • Jungle
  • Mountain
  • Plains
  • Swampland
  • Urban
  • Woodlands

Swimming ( Agility )
Taunt ( Smarts )
  • One-Upmanship
  • Poor Humor
  • Ridicule

Throwing ( Agility )
  • Blunt
  • Edged
  • Juggling

Tracking ( Smarts )
  • Arctic
  • Desert
  • Island/Beach
  • Jungle
  • Mountain
  • Plains
  • Swampland
  • Urban
  • Woodlands
  • Urban


For drive I'd add in two-wheeled.

For lockpicking I might break mechanical into Keyed and Combo

For Riding you might add in "Exotic" or "Flying" depending on the setting

Throwing I would re-organize to be:
Knife/Axe - like (i.e. wrist flick throw)
Spear -like (Straight Throw)
Sports Throw (football/baseball)
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JDGwf
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Joined: 09 May 2013
Posts: 128
Location: Wichita Falls, Texas

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Skill Specialization List (comprehensive?) Reply with quote

robert4818 wrote:


For drive I'd add in two-wheeled.

For lockpicking I might break mechanical into Keyed and Combo

For Riding you might add in "Exotic" or "Flying" depending on the setting

Throwing I would re-organize to be:
Knife/Axe - like (i.e. wrist flick throw)
Spear -like (Straight Throw)
Sports Throw (football/baseball)


I had two-wheeled already covered by "Cycles"

I love the other changed, the list has been updated Smile
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Snate56
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under Boating: Steam is Powered.

Thanks for this list. It illustrates why I will never use this rule. Laughing




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JDGwf
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Snate56: Great catch! Thanks!

I'm only compiling this list because most of my players like a little depth to their skills to help flesh out their characters.

We (my players and I) all come from game systems with much more detailed lists, and this would make the transition easier for those coming from more detailed lists.
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Snate56
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just have to remember, though, that with only 15 points to spend on skills you have to be careful how many "extra" skills you add to the list. This particular rule, while adding desired detail, makes you spend points effectively on just one skill to the detriment of others. Such a character would be at a disadvantage compared to what we consider a normal character.



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Nordicnomad
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PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2014 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah something you have to keep in mind is that one point in a skill doesn't give you much, d4 against a target of 4 only succeeds 25% of the time. A d6 doubles that to 50% success rate and a d8 is where you get bonuses from other edges and can reliably use a skill, though the odds are better with your wild die so a wild card can get by with a d6. After that it's diminishing returns and you're better off putting the points somewhere else.

Plus there are certain skills that everyone will have to take just to be effective. Fighting, Notice, Shooting or throwing, and persuasion then maybe a setting specific skill like guts are all musts either for derived stats or because they come up so often you're really hamstrung without at least a d6 in them.

So knowing that you can see that you'll end up with maybe half your skill points available for character defining skills. As it is with the core skill rules a handful I've yet to see anyone take or really use for that matter and others only get picked up to qualify for edges. And with it being such an edge oriented system again advances only go into fighting or other skills to get more edges with skill requirements.

It's just different from other systems I've played in the past. Characters aren't really defined by their skills but their edges.

But regardless of all that if you're still wanting to roll with it an edge that I think would be useful in a game running this kind of rule is the training edge from shaintar.

Gives you 4 skill points as an edge. So if the skills in that were applied to some of these specialty skills you might have more luck getting your desired effect without the characters ending up not having the skills they need to be effective.
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The One
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An alternative idea for specialisations, is instead of penalising someone for not having the appropriate specialisation, grant a +1 bonus when it comes into effect, and allow a single specialisation per rank to be used.
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Snate56
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think perhaps a +1 for the specialization and -1 to the others but I like letting them add another specialization each rank. Perhaps only one per rank, like with increasing Attributes.
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Clint
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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2014 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As another option, just delineating "specializations" like that could give the same feel while using the standard Skill Familiarization rules without "charging extra" for specializations.
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The Saint
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clint wrote:
As another option, just delineating "specializations" like that could give the same feel while using the standard Skill Familiarization rules without "charging extra" for specializations.


...meaning, for example, that if a fighter picks up a long sword rather than his customary battleaxe, he suffers a short-term penalty of -2? I like that (if I'm getting it correct).
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Clint
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Saint wrote:
Clint wrote:
As another option, just delineating "specializations" like that could give the same feel while using the standard Skill Familiarization rules without "charging extra" for specializations.


...meaning, for example, that if a fighter picks up a long sword rather than his customary battleaxe, he suffers a short-term penalty of -2? I like that (if I'm getting it correct).


Presuming he has zero experience using a long sword, yeah, but of course if he's used one before, then he already has familiarity.
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gleepism
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: Skill Specialization List (comprehensive?) Reply with quote

JDGwf wrote:

Tracking ( Smarts )
  • Arctic
  • Desert
  • Island/Beach
  • Jungle
  • Mountain
  • Plains
  • Swampland
  • Urban
  • Woodlands
  • Urban


Breaking up tracking like this is very strange to me. When tracking, major terrain features are not nearly as important as what is on them. A mountain, for example, could easily encompass swampland at its base, jungle at its lower middle, woodlands higher up, the windswept plains of its tundra section, then the snowy glaciers of its arctic top. An island can be much the same--and islands vary dramatically depending on the surrounding conditions.

Oh, and you forgot Aquatic Smile

I would go with something like:
Aquatic
Desert/arid/sand
Jungle/rainforest
Grasslands/plains
Swampland/moors
Urban
woodlands/forest

Survival suffers from some of the same issues. Surviving in the temperate rainforest of Mt Olympia is more than a little different from the pine forest across the Sound from Olympia, much less the jungles of SE Asia.

Skills that are similar to each other should be broken up the same way, see fighting, shooting, and throwing. That's a huge disparity. EDIT: Not only are the number of skills different, but how they are defined.
Same with Boating, Piloting, and Riding.

80% of the breakdown in Knowledge is actually covered by Common Knowledge.

For that matter, shouldn't Knowledge Language be... per Language? Or at least families of languages? Using "world" as a delimiter makes some very strong assumptions. Take a look at our best example to see what I mean, Earth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family
Same goes for history and law.

Persuasion... umm. Right. How about:
Acting,
Bartering,
Bluffing,
Distraction
Diplomacy/Negotiation,
Performance (Song, Instrument, etc),
etc

Stealth in SW has a wider range than you've allowed it. I'd focus more on what someone is trying to do rather than the type of location
Hiding
Camouflage
Misdirection
Moving Quietly
Palming Objects
Picking Pockets

I'm actually from a background of comprehensive skill lists in my Gaming... so I'll agree that SW seemed pretty odd at first. Then I grasped the fundamental difference.

In SW, everyone is assumed to have some limited grasp of some every skill, which is why (EDIT: ...the common knowledge roll exists and...) skills can be used "untrained"--that -2 on an untrained roll isn't just ignorance of a skill, it's about false assumptions. Likewise, buying up dice in a skill is more than knowledge: it is practice, overcoming those assumptions, learning more about the general topic. That is why a fighter-type that never uses anything but a long sword can, in SW, pick up a mace and be just as effective. His fighting skill isn't about using a specific weapon. It's about using a weapon to kill (or defend himself from) someone that's right in front of him.
In the more comprehensive systems, it is the opposite: The fighter type is assumed to have learned how to defend or attack using a weapon as the base and has a limited (at best) knowledge of doing so with another weapon.
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gleepism
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: Skill Specialization List (comprehensive?) Reply with quote

gleepism wrote:

I would go with something like:
Aquatic
Desert/arid/sand
Jungle/rainforest
Grasslands/plains
Swampland/moors
Urban
woodlands/forest


On further thought, I don't think Urban should be a tracking specialization. Tracking is literally about following tracks, impressions in the medium. But when talking about tracking in an urban environment, people are generally thinking about tailing, which is more a function of stealth.

As an medium for tracking, an urban environment for a modern city is more like a rocky plain--hard surfaces with very little dirt/soil to hold an impression. Generally with heavy traffic... which is a lot of penalties.

For that matter, Urban is in survival as well. Considering the purpose of the survival skill is to provide food and shelter... well. Just seems off.
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kronovan
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gleepism wrote:
Breaking up tracking like this is very strange to me. When tracking, major terrain features are not nearly as important as what is on them. A mountain, for example, could easily encompass swampland at its base, jungle at its lower middle, woodlands higher up, the windswept plains of its tundra section, then the snowy glaciers of its arctic top.

Every GM is free to interpret "mountain" the way they want, but typically it refers to terrain with steep inclines/elevation grades. It's treated differently from swamps, forests or plains because it poses different challenges to the player. As some examples; cliffs requiring good climbing skill and often climbing gear; mountain-specific hazards like scree falls, ice fields, avalanche zones and cascading, torrential rivers. Not to mention things get damn cold once the party gains high elevation. Wink So, yes IMO mountain terrain does create specific and unique challenges to Tracking - survival too for that matter.

Quote:
80% of the breakdown in Knowledge is actually covered by Common Knowledge.

While that may be true, it should be noted that common knowledge that isn't specific to a particular vocation/profession only covers knowledge found within the character's specific locale/domain. Here's the actual descriptive text from SWD:

"Your hero knows the basic history of his land, common etiquette, how to get around geographically, how to operate common machinery or equipment native to his time period and location, and who the major players in his locality are."

Regardless of what type of genre/setting, that "80% of the breackdown in knowledge" is only going to be knowledge that's usable by a character in their immediate vicinity. It's also debatable whether common knowledge is even allowed in a setting with skills specialization in use.
Quote:
For that matter, shouldn't Knowledge Language be... per Language? Or at least families of languages? Using "world" as a delimiter makes some very strong assumptions. Take a look at our best example to see what I mean, Earth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family
Same goes for history and law.

It could, but IMO the special "Multiple Languages" rules should be in place if that's the case. The entry for Knowledge(Languages) in the skills section does spell out what a character with a specialization with "Multiple Languages" is capable of, and it's based upon the dice type they possess. Otherwise, without "Multiple Languages" in effect the Languages specialization would vary depending on the setting. In a Sci-Fi setting with many possible aids to language knowledge, it could certainly be all the languages of a world, whereas in a ancient, historical fantasy setting it could be broken down to just cover 1 language spoken in another Empire or Kingdom.

For Knowledge skills, I would add the specializations of "Arts" and "Geography". I would also generalize "Astrogation" to "Navigation", because in a setting in which the skills is going to be required, navigation technology would likely be advanced enough that navigating the depths of space wouldn't be more challenging than navigating our Earth in a modern setting.
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gleepism
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kronovan wrote:

Every GM is free to interpret "mountain" the way they want, but typically it refers to terrain with steep inclines/elevation grades. It's treated differently from swamps, forests or plains because it poses different challenges to the player. As some examples; cliffs requiring good climbing skill and often climbing gear; mountain-specific hazards like scree falls, ice fields, avalanche zones and cascading, torrential rivers. Not to mention things get damn cold once the party gains high elevation. Wink So, yes IMO mountain terrain does create specific and unique challenges to Tracking - survival too for that matter.

But don't all those examples show areas where climbing/survival would come into play rather than tracking? Tracking would be used to pick up the trail on the other side of a rock slide/hazard, not to navigate through the rock slide/hazard.

Quote:
"Your hero knows the basic history of his land, common etiquette, how to get around geographically, how to operate common machinery or equipment native to his time period and location, and who the major players in his locality are."

That's true, but it's always something that kind of bugged me. The examples given in the later paragraphs involve dancing and stoneworking

Quote:
their immediate vicinity. It's also debatable whether common knowledge is even allowed in a setting with skills specialization in use.

Yeah, which brings up an issue of scale. The immediate vicinity for a far-off space-faring setting differs a lot from that of early middle-ages. Many of the skills in the list, though, indicate it is geared for the far future where worlds are the delineation rather than counties.

Quote:
For that matter, shouldn't Knowledge Language be... per Language? Or at least families of languages? Using "world" as a delimiter makes some very strong assumptions. Take a look at our best example to see what I mean, Earth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family
Same goes for history and law.


Quote:
It could, but IMO the special "Multiple Languages" rules should be in place if that's the case. The entry for Knowledge(Languages) in the skills section does spell out what a character with a specialization with "Multiple Languages" is capable of, and it's based upon the dice type they possess. Otherwise, without "Multiple Languages" in effect the Languages specialization would vary depending on the setting. In a Sci-Fi setting with many possible aids to language knowledge, it could certainly be all the languages of a world, whereas in a ancient, historical fantasy setting it could be broken down to just cover 1 language spoken in another Empire or Kingdom.


I agree with that (and much the way I handle it in a sci-fi setting), but the multiple languages rules wasn't stipulated in the OP... in fact, that seems to me to be contrary to the purpose of a "comprehensive" list. Smile

Quote:
For Knowledge skills, I would add the specializations of "Arts" and "Geography". I would also generalize "Astrogation" to "Navigation"

Good catches!
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